LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

[nyjunc]

No, he pretty much gave them the ultimatim and lobbied for Doug Collins to be fired. You know, the whole its him or me approach?

Most great players have input in coaching(it's why Mike Brown was fired) but Micahel wasn't going anywhere. In Collins' last season they made the East Finals.

I love how you are trying to find anything to discredit him. A celebration at the end of game 2? He is a 30% 3 point shooter, was an inch and .3 second away from losing game 2, missed every previous 3 point attempt in that game not to mention he's coming off a 49 point game 1 loss and you want to question him cause of the way he celebrated? You have got to be one of the most ridiculous fans in the world.

Take out Lebron and Howard and have the teams run a 5 on 5, your gonna tell me Cleveland wins? Thats laughable. Orlando beat Boston in 7 and yet they weren't that good of a team? Thats laughable. I asked you before, find all the players that played for both teams that year and tell me where they are in their careers. Almost all of the cleveland squad is either retired or contributing to the longest losing streaks in the NBA.

Last year Boston was old and beat up? Where are you coming up with these things. It took them 7 games to lose to LA. Boston has atleast 2 more years of dominance. Its hilarious that their old last year but yet have the second best record in the league and are still beating the elite teams this year.

I don't think that Gasol is Wilt and never tried to make him out to be that. But in your quest to prove that Lebron has no heart, you've taken away and discredited all that Pippen, McHale, Jabbar, and Gasol have done to contribute to title runs.

Me being a Heat fan has very little to do with me defending his actions, it made me like him more but it had no barring on defending his decision. I've been saying it his whole career that as long as he's a Cav, he's not winning anything.

he and espn treated that shot like it was the first buzzer beater in the history of basketball. He though they won the series w/ that shot and Cle never recovered and lost to a team they shouldn't have lost to.

Lebron is BY FAR better than Howard, that makes up for the difference in talent around them.

Bsoton was old and beat up, they were riped to be picked off but w/ no great teams they managed to will themselves to game 7 of the Finals. That Finals was some of the worst basketball you will ever see.

Boston is still old this year, Miami should be able to beat them- we'll see.

I didn't discredit those other guys, i think pippen is very overrated and I think Gasol is a good player.


It has everything to do w/ you being a Heat fan. obviously he had the right to make any decision he wanted to but as a basketball fan it's disappointing a player as great as he is took the easy way out.

Jesus Christ. You have to be trolling lmao. And you're damn good at it. The Bulls were putting guys around Jordan. That's the difference. Jordan had the team. LeBron didn't. And LeBron didn't ask for a trade. He left via free agency. He either HAD to leave or never win a title.

What would you have done junk?

Jordan had a young Pippen and some role players on the first 3-peat teams. Those Bulls teams were not anywhere near the most talented teams in NBA history yet they are some of the best teams in NBA history solely b/c of Michael.

They built those teams around Michael, it diodn't happen overnight but Lebron wanted instant gratification, he didn't want to climb the ladder like Michael did. he wanted his titles and he wanted them now so he jumped ship.

 

[JCane]

Instant gratification?? Dude spent seven years in Cleveland and nothing ever changed man. Instant gratification? We're not making a pot of coffee here.

 

[Tunaphish429]

I have a feeling that this going to be debated til the end of time.

 

[JCane]

I have a feeling that this going to be debated til the end of time.

And I just can't understand why.

I guarantee that Magic, Bird, Jordan, and Kobe would have ALL left their teams if their teams treated them the way Cleveland treated LeBron for seven years. And I guarantee it because guys like Barkley, Garnett, etc., all left their teams because their teams were doing them they saaaame way Cleveland did LeBron.

Should Garnett have stayed in Minnesota? Heeeeell no. Kevin did the same thing LeBron did. And now he has a ring.

 

[Tunaphish429]

And I just can't understand why.

I guarantee that Magic, Bird, Jordan, and Kobe would have ALL left their teams if their teams treated them the way Cleveland treated LeBron for seven years. And I guarantee it because guys like Barkley, Garnett, etc., all left their teams because their teams were doing them they saaaame way Cleveland did LeBron.

Should Garnett have stayed in Minnesota? Heeeeell no. Kevin did the same thing LeBron did. And now he has a ring.

Shaq did it. Didnt ruin his legacy.

 

[JCane]

Had Shaq not been here in Miami a few years ago, we wouldn't be having this discussion because Wade would have left Miami for Chicago...and he probably talks Bosh into coming with him. LeBron then probably goes to New York.

 

[nyjunc]

Instant gratification?? Dude spent seven years in Cleveland and nothing ever changed man. Instant gratification? We're not making a pot of coffee here.

Nothing changed? he was only winning 60 games a year and had a team that compete for the East elite. He had chances, he didn't have great teams standing in his way.

And I just can't understand why.

I guarantee that Magic, Bird, Jordan, and Kobe would have ALL left their teams if their teams treated them the way Cleveland treated LeBron for seven years. And I guarantee it because guys like Barkley, Garnett, etc., all left their teams because their teams were doing them they saaaame way Cleveland did LeBron.

Should Garnett have stayed in Minnesota? Heeeeell no. Kevin did the same thing LeBron did. And now he has a ring.

Kobe yes but the others? No, they were competitors who could never admit defeat. Walking away is admitting defeat.

Garnett is nowhere near the level of Lebron or Michael, Magic, Bird, Kobe and Garnett actually did not want to leave Minnesota and was traded. Garnett was also w/ Minny for TWELVE years and played in the West where the best teams were.

Shaq did it. Didnt ruin his legacy.

Shaq left for money and movies. He left a better team to go to a worse team. Not a good comparison.

Had Shaq not been here in Miami a few years ago, we wouldn't be having this discussion because Wade would have left Miami for Chicago...and he probably talks Bosh into coming with him. LeBron then probably goes to New York.

As great as Wade is he isn't Lebron. Lebron is building a career where he can one day be in the discussion w/ guys like Jordan. this set him back. He will likely win multiple titles in Miami but it won't be the same b/c he took the easy way out rather than put a franchise on his back like the other guys.

 

[Tunaphish429]

Nothing changed? he was only winning 60 games a year and had a team that compete for the East elite. He had chances, he didn't have great teams standing in his way.


Kobe yes but the others? No, they were competitors who could never admit defeat. Walking away is admitting defeat.

Garnett is nowhere near the level of Lebron or Michael, Magic, Bird, Kobe and Garnett actually did not want to leave Minnesota and was traded. Garnett was also w/ Minny for TWELVE years and played in the West where the best teams were.



Shaq left for money and movies. He left a better team to go to a worse team. Not a good comparison.



As great as Wade is he isn't Lebron. Lebron is building a career where he can one day be in the discussion w/ guys like Jordan. this set him back. He will likely win multiple titles in Miami but it won't be the same b/c he took the easy way out rather than put a franchise on his back like the other guys.

Well technically so did Lebron, the Heat were not as good as the Cavs last year. Shaq made the Magic. Lebron made the Cavs. Look how long it took the magic to recover from Shaq leaving. Look at how awful the Cavs are.

 

[JCane]

Nothing changed dude. Regular season champs mean very very little. LeBron won 45+ games by himself. Nothing changed. LeBron had nothing in the playoffs. His supporting cast could not compete with other supporting casts in the playoffs. Particularly Boston. Boston was a FAR better team every single year. Forget about the regular season wins. You're putting too much stock into that. Cleveland is the same team Indianapolis is. Peyton Manning and the Colts dominated the regular season several years and then got BOATRACED by better teams in the playoffs. **** in Cleveland never changed. The best Dan Gilbert did for LeBron was a washed up Antwan Jamison who was NEVER an "A" player.

Antwan Jamison...that's what you have to work with? I'm glad LeBron left. Now we can actually see how good he really is when he's playing with help.

 

[nyjunc]

Well technically so did Lebron, the Heat were not as good as the Cavs last year. Shaq made the Magic. Lebron made the Cavs. Look how long it took the magic to recover from Shaq leaving. Look at how awful the Cavs are.

Who said Lebron didn't make the Cavs? and it will take probably at least 5-7 years for Cle to recover from losing a player like him. Chekc that, they may NEVER recover from losing a player like him. Tgose types of players are once in a generation. They will be aplayoff team again some day and they may wina title some day but they may never recover from losing a player like lebron. I have never bashed what lebron meant to that team. I just feel as great as he is if he steps up in postseason they have a chance to win even w/o a great roster around him.

 

[nyjunc]

Nothing changed dude. Regular season champs mean very very little. LeBron won 45+ games by himself. Nothing changed. LeBron had nothing in the playoffs. His supporting cast could not compete with other supporting casts in the playoffs. Particularly Boston. Boston was a FAR better team every single year. Forget about the regular season wins. You're putting too much stock into that. Cleveland is the same team Indianapolis is. Peyton Manning and the Colts dominated the regular season several years and then got BOATRACED by better teams in the playoffs. **** in Cleveland never changed. The best Dan Gilbert did for LeBron was a washed up Antwan Jamison who was NEVER an "A" player.

Antwan Jamison...that's what you have to work with? I'm glad LeBron left. Now we can actually see how good he really is when he's playing with help.

Indy is both a good and bad example. Both Peyton and Lebron are postseason chokers but Indy has had onen of the best rosters in the game for the last decade plus for Peyton. The difference btw NE becoming a dynasty and Indy failing to become a dynasty has been the play at QB in January.

You act like Antawn isn't a good player. He's a good complimentary player, he had enough good complimentary pieces in an era w/o any great teams to be able to at least get to the Finals the last couple of years.

 

[JCane]

So Boston isn't a great team? Boston hasn't been a great team the past couple of seasons?

If going to Miami is the easy way out, and Boston isn't a great team that an average Cleveland team should have beat "had LeBron not choked" then why is Boston very likely to beat Miami this season in the playoffs?

Thanks. I'll take your answer off-air.

 

[Tunaphish429]

Who said Lebron didn't make the Cavs? and it will take probably at least 5-7 years for Cle to recover from losing a player like him. Chekc that, they may NEVER recover from losing a player like him. Tgose types of players are once in a generation. They will be aplayoff team again some day and they may wina title some day but they may never recover from losing a player like lebron. I have never bashed what lebron meant to that team. I just feel as great as he is if he steps up in postseason they have a chance to win even w/o a great roster around him.

Ok, so he has to constanlty try and do everything himself...And what if he fails? Jordan didnt do it all by himself.. Toni Kukoc, Scottie Pippen, Luc Longley, Rodman, Paxton, Kerr. Ron Harper. Horace Grant. Those guys all did there part and even hit big shots when it mattered. Jordan didnt do it all by himself. Lebron was not going to be able to either. Thats why they lost. Its not on Lebron its on the team. Its a team sport. Lebron was the greatest catalyst but he chose to leave to go to a place where he thought he had a better chance to win. Just like Shaq.

 

[nyjunc]

Ok, so he has to constanlty try and do everything himself...And what if he fails? Jordan didnt do it all by himself.. Toni Kukoc, Scottie Pippen, Luc Longley, Rodman, Paxton, Kerr. Ron Harper. Horace Grant. Those guys all did there part and even hit big shots when it mattered. Jordan didnt do it all by himself. Lebron was not going to be able to either. Thats why they lost. Its not on Lebron its on the team. Its a team sport. Lebron was the greatest catalyst but he chose to leave to go to a place where he thought he had a better chance to win. Just like Shaq.

It's on Lebron, the star has the most pressure to carry his team when they need him most. he went to a ready made team w/ another superstar b/c he couldn't handle the pressure.

 

[nyjunc]

So Boston isn't a great team? Boston hasn't been a great team the past couple of seasons?

If going to Miami is the easy way out, and Boston isn't a great team that an average Cleveland team should have beat "had LeBron not choked" then why is Boston very likely to beat Miami this season in the playoffs?

Thanks. I'll take your answer off-air.

Boston isn't a great team the way Bos of the 80s was a great team. 1 title in 3 years doesn't scream greatness.

The core of that Boston team has been together for years now, a year from now no one will consider Boston a favorite over Miami.

Ok, so he has to constanlty try and do everything himself...And what if he fails? Jordan didnt do it all by himself.. Toni Kukoc, Scottie Pippen, Luc Longley, Rodman, Paxton, Kerr. Ron Harper. Horace Grant. Those guys all did there part and even hit big shots when it mattered. Jordan didnt do it all by himself. Lebron was not going to be able to either. Thats why they lost. Its not on Lebron its on the team. Its a team sport. Lebron was the greatest catalyst but he chose to leave to go to a place where he thought he had a better chance to win. Just like Shaq.

Kukoc, Kerr, Harper and Rodman were not on the 1st 3 peat teams and you are putting Luc longley, paxon, Kerr, Harper on your list? Those guys were the definition of average. Harper was really good in Cleveland but he wasn't the same player by the time he got to chi.