Luck come a helping the Jets again

[The New Guy]

Our O wasn't doing anything but being down 3 instead of 10 maybe we don't take that chance on the INT for TD? the game completely changes.

where were the Ravens bad calls? We had that one for a TD, we had the roughing the punter, the non call on the late hit on Burress OOB after calling burress for a facemask- something they NEVER call on receivers. I have seent hat happen a million times. Earlier this year a RB grabbed our DBs facemask and literally carried him yards on the ground and no call.

Throwing a 3 yard pass is taking a chance? It was 20-7 when that play took place. You can't automatically fast forward to when the Jets were down 10 (would have been 3), and say the game changes the way the Jets play. It also could change how the Ravens play. If that fumble TD never happened, maybe the Ravens stop tinkering with the offense which led to 10 points for the Jets. The Jets offense could not move the ball all game long. That call changed nothing.

The roughing the punter no call was missed, but the Jets also held on that play which should have been offsetting penalties. The Ravens did nothing on that drive, so the call is a non factor.

The facemask on Burress was the right call. I didn't see the late hit on Burress, but even if it happened, it would have been offsetting penalties. So, the no call amounted to -4yards against the Jets. It was still 1st down after the penalty.

The Ravens bad calls were on the block in the back on the Jets kick return for the TD, and the no call on pass interference in the endzone.

ok I'll eat my crow ... and while I'm eating my crow explain to me how you blew a two TD lead to the mighty Bengals. I'd like to thank the Bills for eliminating 27 idiots from my knockout pool who actually believed they were good.

It is nice to see someone admit they were wrong. Most people don't even come back to post until the following week. Don't feel bad. Any specific score prediction is silly. CirclingWagons turned out to be pretty close, but that game could have easily been a 13 to 3 type of game.

 

[nyjunc]

Throwing a 3 yard pass is taking a chance? It was 20-7 when that play took place. You can't automatically fast forward to when the Jets were down 10 (would have been 3), and say the game changes the way the Jets play. It also could change how the Ravens play. If that fumble TD never happened, maybe the Ravens stop tinkering with the offense which led to 10 points for the Jets. The Jets offense could not move the ball all game long. That call changed nothing.

The roughing the punter no call was missed, but the Jets also held on that play which should have been offsetting penalties. The Ravens did nothing on that drive, so the call is a non factor.

The facemask on Burress was the right call. I didn't see the late hit on Burress, but even if it happened, it would have been offsetting penalties. So, the no call amounted to -4yards against the Jets. It was still 1st down after the penalty.

The Ravens bad calls were on the block in the back on the Jets kick return for the TD, and the no call on pass interference in the endzone.

any pass was taking a chance and that was a risky throw despite being a few yds downfield.

We wouldn't have gone down 20. The Ravens didn;t stop trying to throw until the last fumble by Flacco in the 3rd, they wouldn't have changed if the game was closer.

W/ a roughing call it is not offsetting so if they made the proper call we would have had the ball w/a 1st down even w/ the holding penalty.

The facemask on Burress is NEVER called and at worst should have been offsetting as he was hit long after the play was over OOB.

It was a 15 yd penalty, it was a spot foul but we still lost one of our few big plays on O/

There wasn't a block in the back that sprung the TD.

Our WRs were interfered w/ all night long, there was one where Holmes was interfered w/ twice by 2 different players on the same play. We got screwed by bad calls, is that why we lost? absolutely not but we got screwed.

 

[The New Guy]

any pass was taking a chance and that was a risky throw despite being a few yds downfield.

With the way Mark was playing, I agree that any pass attempt was taking a chance. Unfortunately, the Jets were not running the ball any better. Sanchez still has to take the snap to be able to hand the ball to the running back, and that was not working out so well either.

W/ a roughing call it is not offsetting so if they made the proper call we would have had the ball w/a 1st down even w/ the holding penalty.

I do not believe this is correct. I am not an expert on the NFL rulebook, but I don't see how you can have 2 penalties and only enforce 1.

It was a 15 yd penalty, it was a spot foul but we still lost one of our few big plays on O/

It was an 11 yard pass that put the Jets on their own 31. It's not like it took them out of FG range. It was still 1st down and the Jets couldn't get a 1st down.

There wasn't a block in the back that sprung the TD.

Our WRs were interfered w/ all night long, there was one where Holmes was interfered w/ twice by 2 different players on the same play. We got screwed by bad calls, is that why we lost? absolutely not but we got screwed.

There was a block in the back. It does not have to spring a TD for it to be a penalty. There was pass interference in the endzone. That is 11 points for the Jets right there. There were some bad calls for the Jets as well, but other than the no rouging the passer call that led to 7 points for the Ravens, none of the other calls were a factor.

I know you agree that the Jets did not deserve to win the game, so what are we really debating. That the Jets have bad breaks that go against them? None of those changed the final outcome of the game. This is nothing like the Jets / Cowboys game. When the Jets are up 10, and have things like that happen to them which causes them to lose, then we can talk. When they happen when the Jets are down 20-7, it just makes a bad game worse.

 

[nyjunc]

With the way Mark was playing, I agree that any pass attempt was taking a chance. Unfortunately, the Jets were not running the ball any better. Sanchez still has to take the snap to be able to hand the ball to the running back, and that was not working out so well either.




I do not believe this is correct. I am not an expert on the NFL rulebook, but I don't see how you can have 2 penalties and only enforce 1.



It was an 11 yard pass that put the Jets on their own 31. It's not like it took them out of FG range. It was still 1st down and the Jets couldn't get a 1st down.




There was a block in the back. It does not have to spring a TD for it to be a penalty. There was pass interference in the endzone. That is 11 points for the Jets right there. There were some bad calls for the Jets as well, but other than the no rouging the passer call that led to 7 points for the Ravens, none of the other calls were a factor.

I know you agree that the Jets did not deserve to win the game, so what are we really debating. That the Jets have bad breaks that go against them? None of those changed the final outcome of the game. This is nothing like the Jets / Cowboys game. When the Jets are up 10, and have things like that happen to them which causes them to lose, then we can talk. When they happen when the Jets are down 20-7, it just makes a bad game worse.

It is correct, a personal conduct foul(which roughing is) takes precedence over a 5 or 10 yard foul. I believe this was instituted a few years back.

It was a huge play at the time, we finally had a positive play and the penalty wiped it out. At worst it puts us in better punting position where we could pin Bal deep which was huge in a game like that.

Please posts the video links for these. The jets got totally screwed in the game, we stunk and weren't winning anyway but the calls were as bad as I could remember.


Just pointing out all the bad breaks we get too, you think we are this lucky team that everything bounces our way. In fact we get more bad breaks but usually overcome, that's what good teams do but we haven't been very good the last 2 weeks.

 

[The New Guy]

It is correct, a personal conduct foul(which roughing is) takes precedence over a 5 or 10 yard foul. I believe this was instituted a few years back.

It was a huge play at the time, we finally had a positive play and the penalty wiped it out. At worst it puts us in better punting position where we could pin Bal deep which was huge in a game like that.

Please posts the video links for these. The jets got totally screwed in the game, we stunk and weren't winning anyway but the calls were as bad as I could remember.


Just pointing out all the bad breaks we get too, you think we are this lucky team that everything bounces our way. In fact we get more bad breaks but usually overcome, that's what good teams do but we haven't been very good the last 2 weeks.

Unless the rules have changed in the last 3 years, that is not correct. There was a game between the Eagles, and Bears in 2008 where the Eagles were punting and had and illegal formation. The Bears roughed the kicker, and the penalties offset:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=280928003

At the 3:47 mark

	Penalty on PHI, Illegal Formation, offsetting, enforced at PHI 21 - No Play.
	Penalty on CHI-C.Tillman, Roughing the Kicker, offsetting.

-----------

The pass to Burress was to the Jets 31. I don't think the Jets are pinning Bal deep punting from the 31. Besides Burress did grab the facemask which was the right call. At worst it would have been offsetting and the Jets start 1st and 10 from the 20 instead of 1st and 14 from the 16. The Jets offense was playing so bad, it really did not matter where they started. 4 yards was not a difference maker.

I've never said that the Jets don't get bad calls. I've debated more on the fact of the other teams giving away games compared to the Jets winning them.

The Jets got bad calls in that game, and so did the Ravens. Neither made any difference in the outcome of this game. The Jets still would have lost even without any blown calls.

 

[nyjunc]

Unless the rules have changed in the last 3 years, that is not correct. There was a game between the Eagles, and Bears in 2008 where the Eagles were punting and had and illegal formation. The Bears roughed the kicker, and the penalties offset:


The pass to Burress was to the Jets 31. I don't think the Jets are pinning Bal deep punting from the 31. Besides Burress did grab the facemask which was the right call. At worst it would have been offsetting and the Jets start 1st and 10 from the 20 instead of 1st and 14 from the 16. The Jets offense was playing so bad, it really did not matter where they started. 4 yards was not a difference maker.

I've never said that the Jets don't get bad calls. I've debated more on the fact of the other teams giving away games compared to the Jets winning them.

The Jets got bad calls in that game, and so did the Ravens. Neither made any difference in the outcome of this game. The Jets still would have lost even without any blown calls.

I found the answer:

From Jerry Markbreit, NFL official:

"When both teams foul during a play, the penalties will generally offset and the down replayed at the previous line of scrimmage. Under NFL rules, if one of the penalties is a 5-yard penalty and the other is a 15-yard penalty, the 5-yard penalty is declined by rule and the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous line of scrimmage no matter where the ball wound up at the end of the play. The only exception to this five/fifteen rule is when there is a possession change during the down. Under this situation, the penalties would offset"

So, normally you would be right, but because the play was a punt, the exception applied.
Source(s):
http://www.mcall.com/topic/cs-031015markbreitanswers,0,7296473.story

so i guess that particular play would have been a re-kick. It's still irritating though that the ref was locked in the hold and missed the roughing 2 feet from him.

It was a postiive play, maybe that leads to another positive play and they get closer to midfield? at worst we punted from the 20 and it was downed at the Bal 37, 26 and 37 are very different. Every yard matters in a game like that.

The Jets got more bad calls and the worst of all which gave Bal a TD but we didn't deserve to win anyway, I'm not blaming the refs just pointing out the bad luck we get regularly.

 

[JETSJETSJETS]

The Jets got bad calls in that game, and so did the Ravens. Neither made any difference in the outcome of this game. The Jets still would have lost even without any blown calls.

Which ones?

The two fumble returns that were passes resulting in 14 points?
Or the Ngata illegal hit?
Or the Suggs late hit on Sanchez on the int for 7 points? Calls that went against the Jets were massive. 21 points massive.

 

[The New Guy]

Which ones?

The two fumble returns that were passes resulting in 14 points?
Or the Ngata illegal hit?
Or the Suggs late hit on Sanchez on the int for 7 points? Calls that went against the Jets were massive. 21 points massive.

View attachment 7886

I thought that the Ngata hit could have easily been called roughing, but they didn't call it. The other play was a fumble. I have no idea what you consider to be a late hit, but that is not even close. Sanchez barely got the ball out before he was hit by Suggs. Most Jets fans will even tell you that. Just ask junc. I'm fairly certain he would tell you. The refs cost the Jets 7 points, not 21. The Jets were not the only team to get bad calls that night. The refs cost the Ravens 11 points from the no calls on the block in the back on the Jets return, and the pass interference in the endzone.

 

[truthbtold]

Which ones?

The two fumble returns that were passes resulting in 14 points?
Or the Ngata illegal hit?
Or the Suggs late hit on Sanchez on the int for 7 points? Calls that went against the Jets were massive. 21 points massive.
View attachment 7886

come on guys ... As jets fans let's take our medicine and call it like it is ....
the officials had nothing to do with that loss. the ravens beat the balls off of us on the line of scrimmage. we couldn't block them all night. and for the record, they both looked like fumbles to me. close ... but fumbles.

even with that, after the maybin forced fumble we were sitting on the 25 yard line about to make it a 7 point game midway through the 3rd Q. if sanchez doesnt throw his worst pass of the season maybe we rally and win. but he did ... and we didn't. that's not on the officials ... that's on him and the O-line.

when I'm watching a game and the announcers feel the need to point it out whenever we actually block a play correctly, the officials are the least of our problems.

bad night ... not a bad team. we'll bounce back.

 

[The New Guy]

come on guys ... As jets fans let's take our medicine and call it like it is ....
the officials had nothing to do with that loss. the ravens beat the balls off of us on the line of scrimmage. we couldn't block them all night. and for the record, they both looked like fumbles to me. close ... but fumbles.

even with that, after the maybin forced fumble we were sitting on the 25 yard line about to make it a 7 point game midway through the 3rd Q. if sanchez doesnt throw his worst pass of the season maybe we rally and win. but he did ... and we didn't. that's not on the officials ... that's on him and the O-line.

when I'm watching a game and the announcers feel the need to point it out whenever we actually block a play correctly, the officials are the least of our problems.

bad night ... not a bad team. we'll bounce back.

I also thought that they were very close. The one I thought they missed that I would consider an impact play was the fumble when Ngata hit Sanchez in the back with his helmet. I thought that should have been an unnecessary roughness call according to the new rules.

Overall the officiating was bad for both teams. Maybe the Jets had a few more calls go against them, but for the calls that led to scores (or took away potential scores), I thought they evened out. If the Jets had played better, and the game was closer, I would be the first one to argue the bad calls for the Jets. (Probably not, but I wouldn't disagree with someone who did)

Bad calls and lucky breaks can change the outcome of games, but the Jets clearly did not play well enough in this game for it to matter.

As much as it pains me to say it; good luck against the Pats.uke:

 

[nyjunc]

come on guys ... As jets fans let's take our medicine and call it like it is ....
the officials had nothing to do with that loss. the ravens beat the balls off of us on the line of scrimmage. we couldn't block them all night. and for the record, they both looked like fumbles to me. close ... but fumbles.

even with that, after the maybin forced fumble we were sitting on the 25 yard line about to make it a 7 point game midway through the 3rd Q. if sanchez doesnt throw his worst pass of the season maybe we rally and win. but he did ... and we didn't. that's not on the officials ... that's on him and the O-line.

when I'm watching a game and the announcers feel the need to point it out whenever we actually block a play correctly, the officials are the least of our problems.

bad night ... not a bad team. we'll bounce back.

I nevers aid we lost b/c of the officals, I was pointing out the bad luck we had w/ awful calls against us.

 

[The New Guy]

On the Int that Brady threw right before the half; would you consider that more of a lucky break, or great defense?

 

[CirclingWagons]

The Ravens are better than the Jets in just about every facet of the game...officials were the least of your concern.

 

[nyjunc]

On the Int that Brady threw right before the half; would you consider that more of a lucky break, or great defense?

That was poor execution by a player that just came back from injury, how about them overturning the Branch fumble early in the 3rd to give NE a free TD- think we could have used that 7 pts back in a 9 pt game?

 

[The New Guy]

That was poor execution by a player that just came back from injury, how about them overturning the Branch fumble early in the 3rd to give NE a free TD- think we could have used that 7 pts back in a 9 pt game?

In other words, it was a lucky break. :)

I shouldn't be, but I'm kind of surprised that you think that the Branch play should have been overturned. It was the right call.

Pause it on the 1:08 mark:

[video=youtube;OBt9qgZmFPw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBt9qgZmFPw[/video]