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Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl

Most people have the top QBs in this Draft (excluding Weeden) as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Landry Jones and Nick Foles. Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I'm sorry but that counts for something because when you get right down to it there's a strong correlation between passing efficiency differential (offense minus defense), and winning football games. The goal of getting a really good QB is aimed specifically at that, the fact that if you pass better than the other guy during a game, you probably win. They don't just hand Super Bowl trophies to whoever is the best QB, and even though Tom Brady is considered better than a Phil Rivers you shouldn't be all that surprised when a Phil Rivers out-produces a Tom Brady and wins the game because Phil Rivers is that caliber a passer, and that's what you're looking for.

Well, no matter how much you notch up the competition in this Draft, Brandon Weeden has out-dueled that guy and beat him. That's what you're looking for, a guy that can do that on Sunday. Would I take Andrew Luck? Absolutely. I've been an Andrew Luck guy for approximately 26 months. But the chances are PRET-TY slim on that.

People talk about Weeden under pressure and in the pocket, his feet, etc. I don't get the criticism. It's what I like about him best. Or near as much. I also really love the confidence and aggression in his arm, and of course the accuracy and quality of the ball at all distances is second to maybe one. But under pressure he's extremely fluid in the pocket, always shuffling his feet. He doesn't try to hit homeruns with his scrambling ability. He tries to hit a lot of singles.

There was a perfect example and it happened to be on the one sack he took during the game. Stanford ran a disguised front where they had a lot of guys standing up and moving around just before the snap, then sent A gap pressure up the middle. A blitzer came right through the right side A gap barely touched. Weeden NEVER took his eyes off the field, and yet somehow he sensed that guy coming through and stepped one step to his left side, eyes still on the field, putting his tailback blocker directly in between Weeden and the blitzer. That was unbelievable in how natural and EFFECTIVE it was. I say effective because Weeden wasn't trying to hit a homerun with his scrambling ability, doing some ridiculous bit of scrambling out of the pocket, buying 3 to 5 more seconds and trying to unleash something deep. All he wanted to buy was 1 more second because that's all he felt he needed to get the ball out to the man he wanted.

Now, as it happens, on the play, the man he wanted ended up tightly covered and re-routed, and so Weeden had to pull down the ball and take a sack. But what's remarkable about the play is, here you've got this disguised blitz, disguised front, A gap blitzers and a guy coming right through the A gap untouched...and the resulting sack was a COVERAGE SACK. That's right, it was a COVERAGE SACK...because Weeden made the subtlest little move that bought him all the time he would have needed to throw that ball if his receiver hadn't been so thoroughly blasted by the coverage.

Do you know how Marino-esque that is?

And color me confused with all this continued criticism that if you get Weeden to move his feet he can't throw. That's some straight horse poopey. Does he lose the edge on his ridiculous accuracy/ball placement at all distances when he's moving around? Absolutely. Does just about every single quarterback not named Aaron Rodgers also lose the edge on their accuracy/ball placement when forced to move around? You're damn right.

What I notice about Weeden when he's moving around is he's a heck of a lot better athlete than people give him credit for. Look at that TD run. That was no easy run. He had to break tackles and run like a Wildcat QB, like he's Tim Tebow or something...but he still willed it in. I think what he lacks in this department is just REPS. I think if you got him into an offense where you asked him to do this more, he'd get better and better with it and then before you know it, who knows maybe you DO have an Aaron Rodgers on your hands as far as not losing accuracy/ball placement on the run.
Thank you. If we pass on him and trade everything for RG3, I'll be pretty upset. The thing is, everyone knocks him for his age, but are you really that much more likely to get more than five or six years out of RG3?
 
Thank you. If we pass on him and trade everything for RG3, I'll be pretty upset. The thing is, everyone knocks him for his age, but are you really that much more likely to get more than five or six years out of RG3?

Given RG3's attitude, his playing style and frame?

No.
 
I like RGIII, but I do not want to give a ton to get him...which it will in order to secure him...

I do not have the stomach to start arguing over Weeden again. He did a nice job...but versus a secondary that has been torched before to be fair. Weeden has a stud in Blackmon that is the real story of the game. I am still not convinced of him still, but I digress. I hope he does one of the college prospect games and works in Indy and starts to do things like he will have to do in the NFL such as actually getting a snap from center.

I still think he is a day three pick, but maybe he has chance to move up depending on how he can perform under center in the evaluation period. Should be interesting to watch.
 
CK don't forget, Barkley almost beat Luck as well had his Offensive player not screwed up.

ONe thing about Luck, great QB but he goes toe to toe with TOO many QB that are listed below him instead of out shining and beating. Thats a concern for me.
 
Most people have the top QBs in this Draft (excluding Weeden) as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Landry Jones and Nick Foles. Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I'm sorry but that counts for something because when you get right down to it there's a strong correlation between passing efficiency differential (offense minus defense), and winning football games. The goal of getting a really good QB is aimed specifically at that, the fact that if you pass better than the other guy during a game, you probably win. They don't just hand Super Bowl trophies to whoever is the best QB, and even though Tom Brady is considered better than a Phil Rivers you shouldn't be all that surprised when a Phil Rivers out-produces a Tom Brady and wins the game because Phil Rivers is that caliber a passer, and that's what you're looking for.

Well, no matter how much you notch up the competition in this Draft, Brandon Weeden has out-dueled that guy and beat him. That's what you're looking for, a guy that can do that on Sunday. Would I take Andrew Luck? Absolutely. I've been an Andrew Luck guy for approximately 26 months. But the chances are PRET-TY slim on that.

People talk about Weeden under pressure and in the pocket, his feet, etc. I don't get the criticism. It's what I like about him best. Or near as much. I also really love the confidence and aggression in his arm, and of course the accuracy and quality of the ball at all distances is second to maybe one. But under pressure he's extremely fluid in the pocket, always shuffling his feet. He doesn't try to hit homeruns with his scrambling ability. He tries to hit a lot of singles.

There was a perfect example and it happened to be on the one sack he took during the game. Stanford ran a disguised front where they had a lot of guys standing up and moving around just before the snap, then sent A gap pressure up the middle. A blitzer came right through the right side A gap barely touched. Weeden NEVER took his eyes off the field, and yet somehow he sensed that guy coming through and stepped one step to his left side, eyes still on the field, putting his tailback blocker directly in between Weeden and the blitzer. That was unbelievable in how natural and EFFECTIVE it was. I say effective because Weeden wasn't trying to hit a homerun with his scrambling ability, doing some ridiculous bit of scrambling out of the pocket, buying 3 to 5 more seconds and trying to unleash something deep. All he wanted to buy was 1 more second because that's all he felt he needed to get the ball out to the man he wanted.

Now, as it happens, on the play, the man he wanted ended up tightly covered and re-routed, and so Weeden had to pull down the ball and take a sack. But what's remarkable about the play is, here you've got this disguised blitz, disguised front, A gap blitzers and a guy coming right through the A gap untouched...and the resulting sack was a COVERAGE SACK. That's right, it was a COVERAGE SACK...because Weeden made the subtlest little move that bought him all the time he would have needed to throw that ball if his receiver hadn't been so thoroughly blasted by the coverage.

Do you know how Marino-esque that is?

And color me confused with all this continued criticism that if you get Weeden to move his feet he can't throw. That's some straight horse poopey. Does he lose the edge on his ridiculous accuracy/ball placement at all distances when he's moving around? Absolutely. Does just about every single quarterback not named Aaron Rodgers also lose the edge on their accuracy/ball placement when forced to move around? You're damn right.

What I notice about Weeden when he's moving around is he's a heck of a lot better athlete than people give him credit for. Look at that TD run. That was no easy run. He had to break tackles and run like a Wildcat QB, like he's Tim Tebow or something...but he still willed it in. I think what he lacks in this department is just REPS. I think if you got him into an offense where you asked him to do this more, he'd get better and better with it and then before you know it, who knows maybe you DO have an Aaron Rodgers on your hands as far as not losing accuracy/ball placement on the run.

I wonder though how well Luck, RGIII, Tannehill and Foles would have done with Justin Blackmon running free. Have to admit, his receivers make him look very good.
 
We need keep the comparisons of Weeden to Marino to a minimum. Easy now...
 
Justin Blackmon is the most dominate player in the game, he's who I want to trade up and get more than anyone.

If Luck and RG3 are out of our reach, then yes, Blackmon is the next guy I want. Hell, Blackmon and Marshall on the same team? I could play QB... :chuckle:
 
Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I stopped reading right here. This is a piss poor way of looking at a TEAM game.

Did Weeden "BEAT" them all by himself? Was he catching his own passes, handing off the ball to himself and playing defense all by himself? If no, then he did not "BEAT" all five of them.

If Weeden didn't have the most dominate WR in all of college football then I may think he's worth a 3rd round pick. However, most QB's do very well in that Cowboy's offense without the most dominate WR in all of college football.
 
I stopped reading right here. This is a piss poor way of looking at a TEAM game.

Did Weeden "BEAT" them all by himself? Was he catching his own passes, handing off the ball to himself and playing defense all by himself? If no, then he did not "BEAT" all five of them.

If Weeden didn't have the most dominate WR in all of college football then I may think he's worth a 3rd round pick. However, most QB's do very well in that Cowboy's offense without the most dominate WR in all of college football.

The relevance is that Weeden led his team to victories in all of those games and played quite well in the process, and as was pointed out he out-produced his highly rated QB counterparts in thise games. Of course he didn't win the games all by himself- that point is moot and is unnecessary. Blackmon helped Weeden and Weeden helped Blackmon, as it should be. That doesn't take away from how good Blackmon is, and it doesn't take away from the quality overall quarterbacking of Weeden- the dude is simply an excellent Quarterback.

On a different note- and this isn't necessarily dirceted at you Hanson- I've seen comments on this thread as to Weeden's touch and accuracy. No QB is going to be perfect all the time, but Weeden over the course of this year has been outstanding on both counts, not to mention having the most powerful and best overall arm I've seen all year. The Texas Tech game comes to mind- tremendous touch- and plenty of other games as well. Dude threw for an efficient 400 yards against Stanford-no complaints in this corner.

And the "systems QB" comments- does this all boil down to getting comfortable with a coventional drop in the pocket? Is that it? Something that he almost undoubtedly has done in the past and almost any Qb can do? Big deal- I doubt that there would be equal concerns for a college drop back QB who would be asked to operate out of the shotgun in the NFL on 3rd and maybe 2nd downs. This is a minor concern- at most.

Actually, I look at it as a positive. There will obvioulsy be a lot of running plays on 1st and 2nd down NFL plays anyway, but I'd rather take the QB who has already been trained to scan the whole field regularly and make sound decisions, as Weeden has been asked to and executed at an extremely high level. I'd look at his shotgun/"systems QB" label as a net positive, giving him a head start as per the NFL as compared to a traditional college drop back passer with much less experience passing and maximizing his all of his availiable weapons and the entire field. I don't think that college QBs come all that much more NFL ready than Brandon Weeden is right now.
 
Brandon Weeden being drafted by the Dolphins is so glaringly obvious as the best choice that I am completely convinced it won't happen. Not if Ireland is still the GM.
 
The relevance is that Weeden led his team to victories in all of those games and played quite well in the process, and as was pointed out he out-produced his highly rated QB counterparts in thise games. Of course he didn't win the games all by himself- that point is moot and is unnecessary. Blackmon helped Weeden and Weeden helped Blackmon, as it should be. That doesn't take away from how good Blackmon is, and it doesn't take away from the quality overall quarterbacking of Weeden- the dude is simply an excellent Quarterback.

On a different note- and this isn't necessarily dirceted at you Hanson- I've seen comments on this thread as to Weeden's touch and accuracy. No QB is going to be perfect all the time, but Weeden over the course of this year has been outstanding on both counts, not to mention having the most powerful and best overall arm I've seen all year. The Texas Tech game comes to mind- tremendous touch- and plenty of other games as well. Dude threw for an efficient 400 yards, no complaints in this corner.

And the "systems QB" comments- does this all boil down to getting comfortable with a coventional drop in the pocket? Is that it? Something that he almost undoubtedly has done in the past and almost any Qb can do? Big deal- I doubt that there would be equal concerns for a college drop back QB who would be asked to operate out of the shotgun in the NFL on 3rd and maybe 2nd downs. This is a minor concern- at most.

Actually, I look at it as a positive. There will obvioulsy be a lot of running plays on 1st and 2nd down NFL plays anyway, but I'd rather take the QB who has already been trained to scan the whole field regularly and make sound decisions, as Weeden has been asked to and executed and an extremely high level. I'd look at his shotgun/"systems QB" label as a net positive, giving him a head start as per the NFL as compared to a traditional college drop back passer with much less experience passing and maximizing his all of his availiable weapons and the entire field. I don't think that college QBs come all that much more NFL ready than Brandon Weeden is right now.

Weeden's weapons are far better than any QB playing in college today. Weeden outproduced Luck because of Blackmon's play. Comparing QB's "head-to-head" is a crap way of analyzing their play. QB's don't play head-to-head. Hell, I'm not even sure one could say that Weeden was the better QB last night. Luck completed nearly 90% of his passes for 350yds and 2 TD's. Luck's yards per pass average was 2 yards greater than Weedens. Did you see Blackmon last night? If not for Blackmon breaking tackles and refusing to go down Weeden has a mediocre game, at best.
 
thats an interesting point about the lateral side steps from weeden being marinoesque...i never even really thought about that and it is similar
 
Weeden's weapons are far better than any QB playing in college today. Weeden outproduced Luck because of Blackmon's play. Comparing QB's "head-to-head" is a crap way of analyzing their play. QB's don't play head-to-head. Hell, I'm not even sure one could say that Weeden was the better QB last night. Luck completed nearly 90% of his passes for 350yds and 2 TD's. Luck's yards per pass average was 2 yards greater than Weedens. Did you see Blackmon last night? If not for Blackmon breaking tackles and refusing to go down Weeden has a mediocre game, at best.

I'm not saying that Weeden outplayed Luck, they both played very well. Weeden used his best weapon, Blackmon, who is the best WR in college football- as he should. That is a competetvive advantage, but it's exactly what a smart QB would do, and it doesn't take away from Weeden's superior arm and overall ability. It just shows him to be smart and efficient.
 
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