McKnight Screwed Again...Derrius Thompson Declared Starter

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by Muck


Middle Men from your list of teams

Rams - Torry Holt
Packers (SB) - Antonio Freeman
Broncos - McCafferey (although Rod Smith can do it too).
Dallas (Norv) - Michael Irvin
Washington - Rod Gardener
Buffalo - Peerless Price
MARKS BROTHERS - Clayton
Patriots - Troy Brown

Again, the 1:1 ratio is not a requirement. But all of those teams you mentioned above absolutely had a guy who got it done over the middle.

Muck reread my post, I said Chambers can do the middle thing, when the possession receiver is not in. I covered that point. And all these guys that you list have speed, plus the guys who played opposite them had great speed..Thanks for making my point.

 

[minus]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN


Muck reread my post, I said Chambers can do the middle thing, when the possession receiver is not in. I covered that point. And all these guys that you list have speed, plus the guys who played opposite them had great speed..Thanks for making my point.

Chambers has? Great speed...Best type of receivers is the combination type of receiver.Check all top WR's in this league none of them is just a speedster and that what describe Mcknight.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by minus


Chambers has? Great speed...Best type of receivers is the combination type of receiver.Check all top WR's in this league none of them is just a speedster and that what describe Mcknight.

Minus, my whole premise is that the best passing teams had two fast receivers starting...I'm not sure of what your saying, but Mcknight caught a lot of short passes last year and turned them into long runs, IE, the playmaking ability I talked about. Again speed kills in this league and sets up other things..I posted these things in other posts, but it gives us great flexibility. But a team has to know how to use them, if Shula was there, I'm sure he would know how.

 

[minus]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN


Minus, my whole premise is that the best passing teams had two fast receivers starting...I'm not sure of what your saying, but Mcknight caught a lot of short passes last year and turned them into long runs, IE, the playmaking ability I talked about. Again speed kills in this league and sets up other things..I posted these things in other posts, but it gives us great flexibility. But a team has to know how to use them, if Shula was there, I'm sure he would know how.

Again Thompson has good speed and he makes plays if you had a chance to attend practice than you would know what I'm talking about.Terrel Owens is not 4.3 player but he is playaker and has deceiving speed.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by minus


Again Thompson has good speed and he makes plays if you had a chance to attend practice than you would know what I'm talking about.Terrel Owens is not 4.3 player but he is playaker and has deceiving speed.

Minus, I'm not against Thompson, I watched him here in Washington, I'm very familiar with him, I've fought for him in lew of OG, remember..I know what you're talking about....It's just something I've seen over the years..Again DT will be a solid and really a great receiver for us, I'm very happy he's here. I just think of strategy differently from you, that's all, we both want what's best for the team. I'm glad we have DT and Mcknight..I hope Tolver catch on quickly and I like the Bakers\Newsons and Jackson...but they all have speed and that doesn't mean as much to you. I just see the league a little differently.

 

[ohall]

Originally posted by ckparrothead
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports...ons/saturday/sports_f3221169a590e1980094.html



I don't know how this guy always manages to get in the doghouse before the PADS even come on but it would seem yet again that J-Mac is gettin screwed over by the coaches in favor of someone else.

In case you don't remember, last year about this time, Wannstedt had declared an official competition between James McKnight and Oronde Gadsden for the starting spot opposite Chambers. He had declared such before training camp started. J-Mac psyched himself up for a good healthy competition, while Oronde bytched and whined to the press about how after all he's done for this organization he should have at least one of the two spots absolutely solidified, as if it would be Chambers and McKnight battling for the 2nd spot.

Then right about this time, Wannstedt caved in under the pressure of Gadsden's whining and the locker rooms fondness for OG. He closed the competition just as training camp started. Before pads even came on...he said "Really, there was no competition, after all that Oronde's done for us he deserves the spot"

Deja vu. A matter of weeks ago Dave Wannstedt was calling James McKnight "our most consistent receiver in 2002" and pointing out the production he had when he became starter. He said he would be the starter but that Derrius and OG would battle for him.

We've had exactly ONE day of practice with pads on, and all the sudden, Derrius Thompson is the declared starter, with the understanding that he will be battled through camp by J-Mac and OG.

Ya know, this is something we all knew was gonna happen...I think something we all wanted to happen too really. But I still question the way its happened. Damn man, the way we consistently talk up and then screw over James McKnight, I don't get it...why don't we just cut him? I mean he's gotta be so p!ssed at us by now because we keep toying with him like this. It just sucks cuz I know when the day comes that he leaves the Dolphins and plays for someone else I know he's gonna talk some trash about the coaches and the time he spent here, and ya know what?

I'm not gonna be able to disagree with him!

I feel your pain, I too like McKnight as well. But after saying that, this Thompson looks like a BEAST. If McKnight remains the #2 WR he earned it, if he doesn't he simply was beat out by a better WR in Thompson. In the long run it's all good.

Oliver...

 

[Disgustipate]

Gadsden is pure hands, nothing else. Role player.

McKnight is pure speed, nothing else. Role player.

Thompson is a blend of the two(More one). Starter.

Makes sense to me.

 

[ckparrothead]

Its not like there is nothing to read into this. Prior to this, James McKnight was on the depth chart ahead of Derrius Thompson. The point some of you may be missing is that this has now OFFICIALLY CHANGED. I didn't say that its set in stone, I pointed out that there will now be a battle.

However, what exactly has happened to OFFICIALLY CHANGE anything on the depth chart? All we've had is pad-less practices. Now undoubtedly Derrius Thompson has the edge on J-Mac and OG for the right to start opposite Chambers and the onus is now laid upon James McKnight to beat him...and contrary to popular belief around here in this offense we do NOT use a 3rd WR that often. Go ahead and check out Dedric Ward's numbers last year. He functioned as our 3rd WR throughout the year.

Making ANY depth chart changes after padless practices, even if the position is still in flux, is wrong...unless J-Mac did somethin really bad or showed up to camp as fat as OG or somethin which he didnt. Its just this is a guy the coaches love to give the shaft, and they've done it yet again.

 

[stan marino]

I dont see the big deal, they have given the younger more complete receiver more reps with the #1 team, and a chance to learn the offense that Mcknight should already know. If something happens to Thompson for whatever reason we still have McKnight who is a vet(and getting old) who can step in. Otherwise we are giving the Younger reciever experience, and seeing what he can do with the pads on against our own tough defense. I dont see this as a bad move at all, and nothing is in stone anyway so it makes perfect sense.

 

[ckparrothead]

That still doesnt make it very fair to James McKnight. He should be the one getting first team reps and a rapport with Jay Fiedler until Derrius beats him. Thats just the way things should go to keep the locker room happy. What I don't like is this completely fake "newcomers have to pay their own way" stance that Wannstedt takes. Whenever we get a second tier type of new player, free agent, trade, whatever, even if the writing is on the wall that this is a guy the coaches feel will start, they always have to "earn their way"

Thats fine if you actually follow through on that. But in most cases, the coaches settle on the new guy before they've shown us anything...and the whole thing just seems really fake and would p!ss me off if I was a player watchin that sort of thing.

Wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow Wannstedt declared Sammy Knight the starter too. He did this with Jay Fiedler, is doin it with Knight, Thompson...did it back when we brought Perry onto the team too I believe. Did it with Todd Wade if you remember. Everyone knew Wade was starting soon as we drafted him. But oh no he's gotta compete for it fir...oops competition's over with Wade wins! What are you gawking at? He earned it fair and square through tough competition!

I say if you buy a guy that you feel is gonna be a starter, say that, work with him on the first team, and if he disappoints you move him down in favor of your other guys. Or if you say he's got to earn his way first, make them actually earn their way.

For all we saw out of Derrius Thompson in padless mini-camps, JR Tolver should be declared the starter, Sage Rosenfels should be our QB, and Korey Banks should be our Nickel CB.

 

[Muck]

I accidentally closed my browser out just now and lost all of my entire post. So I'll just make it quick(er).

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
Muck reread my post, I said Chambers can do the middle thing, when the possession receiver is not in. I covered that point.

#1) Nowhere did you say, "when the possession receiver is not in". Maybe I'm just blind. So if I missed it, by all means...... At any rate, this statement contradicts your stance in this thread because.....if McKnight starts (as you wish)....there will never not be a time when the possession receiver IS in the game.....because Chris Chambers would always be that player when called upon. Certainly McKnight isn't going to do it.

You remember how badly that went last season (Chambers/McKnight starting)?? It may have worked out well for McKnight, but it certainly did not for Chambers. He was admittedly unhappy in that role. He does not want that role. He was not drafted for that role. And the Dolphins do not want him in that role. That is my position: That he occasionally go over the middle, but that being his secondary role.

#2) In your initial post, you said, "But if you look at most teams, especially the successful ones, they have 2 speedsters on the outside." And that's why I responded with my "on the contrary, most teams have a one of each....it's not a requirement...but somebody has to go over the middle" post.

Then you responded with "I said successful teams....examples....Derrius was fired for a faster guy....". I responded with my list, showing that each team did indeed have a guy who was expected to and successfully went over the middle. Just reinforcing my point.

As you can see, all of my responses were correct and justified.

And all these guys that you list have speed, plus the guys who played opposite them had great speed

:confused:

Um, where did I say otherwise?? I was actually going to list each tandem and bold the "middle" man. Hindsight's 20/20.

Also, I never knew that the Thompson/Rod Gardener duo was noted for burning up the field, since....based on your stance in this thread....the addition of Laveraneous Coles must give them two speedsters. Obviously that is not the case, as Thompson and Gardener are pretty much the same guy. And Troy Brown is ABSOLUTELY considered a possession receiver. I mean, he averages 11.6 ypc over his career.....and 9.2 last year.

Thanks for making my point.

Actually, no.... I didn't. Sorry. The point I'm making is, regardless of whether those teams started two "speedsters" or not, they still had a man who effectively patrolled the middle. Again, Chambers can do this occasionally. McKnight can't do it at all.

Just for clarity, I'll reiterate my position: It's not a requirement to have to start a possession and a speed guy. It's nice to have speed on both sides. But to be successful, SOMEBODY has to be able to go over the middle on get it done, fast or not. And you don't sacrifice that for the sake of speed.

 

[ZOD]

I think the argument sounds good but I also think that Mcknight problems have gone unmentioned.

The main problems with Mcknights talents or lack there of:
1. Our line cannot protect long enough for a "speed" receiver to get downfield. There is a difference between "speed" and quickness. 4 in the 40 doesn't matter if your quarterback is flush out of the pocket at 3. At the fourth second he's scrambling for his life.
2. Our quarterback's weakness is the long ball.

The offense is better suited to a big possession receiver as a number 2.

 

[PhinsTD]

CK is always on McK's nuts. He will not be happy if someone outplays him to be the starter.

I'm going with Wanny, if he says RIGHT NOW Thompson has earned the lead to start then so be it.

What is it about McK you like so much CK? He is a solid guy, decent WR with great speed. Is it the speed that gets you all gooey? I just see him as very average, Thompson has the chance to be above average. If he fails what's the harm in going back to a guy we know what we'll get?

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by ZOD
I think the argument sounds good but I also think that Mcknight problems have gone unmentioned.

The main problems with Mcknights talents or lack there of:
1. Our line cannot protect long enough for a "speed" receiver to get downfield. There is a difference between "speed" and quickness. 4 in the 40 doesn't matter if your quarterback is flush out of the pocket at 3. At the fourth second he's scrambling for his life.
2. Our quarterback's weakness is the long ball.

The offense is better suited to a big possession receiver as a number 2.

Exactly.

 

[P4E]

Yeah, this kinda sucks for J-Mac, but I don't see the position DW's taken on this to be a knock on J-Mac as much I see it as a recognition of Thompson simply being the better receiver in the assessment of the coaching staff. Life is like that, and I'd rather see the coaching staff acting on their strongest beliefs regarding MERIT, rather than worrying about ruffled feathers.

If I were Wanny... and I felt that all things were perfectly equal between McKnight and Thompson... I would put Thompson in on the first team in TC... BECAUSE... one way or another, Thompson is going to be a key player on our receiving corps... and he is the MOST IMPORTANT receiver with whom Jay Fiedler is not yet familiar.

I'd state that Thompson's on the first team because he needs reps with Jay at QB the most, and not because he's earned any starter's tag yet. Yeah, it's largely PR, but it's logical, defensible, face-saving for J-Mac, and invites both players to prove who's better.

Fact is, we need what each of them brings to the table.