McKnight Screwed Again...Derrius Thompson Declared Starter
- Thread starter ckparrothead
- Start date
Muck I was talking about the 2 receiver set, Chambers can go across the middle, like Moulds did for the bills. So I'm not contradicting myself..I thought it was clear and apparently it wasn't. When it's 3rd and something, I expect a possession receiver to come in, in a 3 receiver set. Remember the good ole days, when your 3rd, usually a possession guy would come in and make a 3 reciever set. Understand now. I hope so.
It didn't go badly, Ricky racked up yards, Safties had to play back. were the receivers used wrongly for awhile, yes, but that's the coaches not adjusting, not the receivers fault, once they figured it out, by season's end they were clicking. As Fords states:
"Losing a quarterback and two receivers in the same game, it's just like starting from square one," Ford said. "As a result, we looked raggedy. We didn't really start looking like a [good] receiving corps until the 14th or 15th week of the season. We played well then, but by that time all the damage was done."
Never said it was a requirement, we've gotten use to it because we've had OG starting, and that's the way our fans view the WR positions..use to be in a pickup game, you get your faster guys out there. But on our most success dolphins team, when Dan set the records, he had two fast receivers, so does the Rams and all the others I named.
Which didn't make sense to me since I had already stated that CC could go across the middle..so he was our middle guy as for as I was concern. Mcknight is our short, intermediate, and long guy. CC is more intermediate, long, and possession as I see him.
As You can see, not me, your answers were justified, but from what I was talking about, you obviouly didn't understand, and therefore didn't justify anything to me.
:confused:
They weren't fast, but gardener was faster than DT and that's why DT is here, and Troy brown is a must faster possession receiver than we were use to with OG.
MY input to this
To be earnest we've never seen it tried with him, except in the first NE game for a 20 yard TD on a post pattern)Just for total Clarification, I've never said it was. I've stated why I think we should start two fast guys, not that you have too. CC can go over the middle, and I agree with CK, at this point there is no reason to name another starter in that position, since at least to my knowledge, Mcknight has done nothing wrong..For the person who says that they're doing it to get DT and Jay on the same page, they should say so. But that's not what's written in the article. Thus, Mcknight is being shafted post by CK, and I agree.
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ZOD
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MD,
First let me congratulate you on the valient effort
. I know the receiver set you have been talking about and it would be nice to see something like that again.
The problem with your whole logic though is that you would have a receiver on the field for a "chance" if Mcknight and Chambers were 1 and 2. A chance that 9 times out of 10 would not be realized. That chance would be a receiver on a "go route". As a matter of fact, I doubt Jay would even seriously look at the receiver on the "go route". If he did, I think you would agree that the results would be disaster (such as a short ball bouncing off of a shoulder).
Just look at last year with Ray Lucas. During camp the talk was all about his "cannon" for an arm. The Jay haters clamoured for a start because he looked good in preseason, yada, yada, yada. The problem was that when it actually went live and the real talent was on the field, Ray couldn't understand why he didn't have the time to use that cannon. It disgusted me as it did you. The difference between Ray and Jay was that one knew the time he had to make a play and the other didn't. If Ray could have been honest last year he would have told the world after those games that he was not prepared for such a lack of protection. Jay has played behind that line successfully so even that excuse would not be a good defense for Ray. Ray did not prepare for the offensive that he had.
You have made a good argument for why Mcknight should be given a chance at number 2 for his talents. But in that argument you have largely ignored the talent that would be on the field with him. If we had the offensive line and the Quarterback to go with the talents of Mcknight and Chambers your argument might have some merit.
Based on your previous posts in other threads about our offensive talent (if given consideration) I think you would agree.
First let me congratulate you on the valient effort
. I know the receiver set you have been talking about and it would be nice to see something like that again. The problem with your whole logic though is that you would have a receiver on the field for a "chance" if Mcknight and Chambers were 1 and 2. A chance that 9 times out of 10 would not be realized. That chance would be a receiver on a "go route". As a matter of fact, I doubt Jay would even seriously look at the receiver on the "go route". If he did, I think you would agree that the results would be disaster (such as a short ball bouncing off of a shoulder).
Just look at last year with Ray Lucas. During camp the talk was all about his "cannon" for an arm. The Jay haters clamoured for a start because he looked good in preseason, yada, yada, yada. The problem was that when it actually went live and the real talent was on the field, Ray couldn't understand why he didn't have the time to use that cannon. It disgusted me as it did you. The difference between Ray and Jay was that one knew the time he had to make a play and the other didn't. If Ray could have been honest last year he would have told the world after those games that he was not prepared for such a lack of protection. Jay has played behind that line successfully so even that excuse would not be a good defense for Ray. Ray did not prepare for the offensive that he had.
You have made a good argument for why Mcknight should be given a chance at number 2 for his talents. But in that argument you have largely ignored the talent that would be on the field with him. If we had the offensive line and the Quarterback to go with the talents of Mcknight and Chambers your argument might have some merit.
Based on your previous posts in other threads about our offensive talent (if given consideration) I think you would agree.
FinaticalOne
DieHard FinFan 4 Life
Hey CK, I think everyone is jumping the gun on Wanny's statement. He said, "if the season started today, Thompson would start." There's a lot of TC left, so let's wait until the final week of August to see how this plays out.
Originally posted by ZOD
MD,
First let me congratulate you on the valient effort
The problem with your whole logic though is that you would have a receiver on the field for a "chance" if Mcknight and Chambers were 1 and 2. A chance that 9 times out of 10 would not be realized. That chance would be a receiver on a "go route". As a matter of fact, I doubt Jay would even seriously look at the receiver on the "go route". If he did, I think you would agree that the results would be disaster (such as a short ball bouncing off of a shoulder).
Just look at last year with Ray Lucas. During camp the talk was all about his "cannon" for an arm. The Jay haters clamoured for a start because he looked good in preseason, yada, yada, yada. The problem was that when it actually went live and the real talent was on the field, Ray couldn't understand why he didn't have the time to use that cannon. It disgusted me as it did you. The difference between Ray and Jay was that one knew the time he had to make a play and the other didn't. If Ray could have been honest last year he would have told the world after those games that he was not prepared for such a lack of protection. Jay has played behind that line successfully so even that excuse would not be a good defense for Ray. Ray did not prepare for the offensive that he had.
You have made a good argument for why Mcknight should be given a chance at number 2 for his talents. But in that argument you have largely ignored the talent that would be on the field with him. If we had the offensive line and the Quarterback to go with the talents of Mcknight and Chambers your argument might have some merit.
Based on your previous posts in other threads about our offensive talent (if given consideration) I think you would agree.
Hey ZOD, I think you may have a point with the LT who just signed with GB, as our starting LT..Don't know why I forgot his name just that quick, oh yea, Spriggs. He was terrible for protection. In Lucas 2nd start against GB, I close my eyes on each pass play, because Spriggs man beat him so bad, I can't believe GB signed him after seeing him up close in that game. Anyway, this is basically the same line that allowed Chambers to catch so many bombs his first year. Now if I've got this right, Wanny and Norv stated the following.
"We realized you have to throw more to score early in games and then run to win in the second half".
They expressed a desired to open up the O and make big plays in the passing game, of which Chambers is going to play a part. So if that's the thinking, obviously they expect the line to hold their blocks..So Muck, your EXACTLY, on ZOD post, doesn't go with what the coaches have been talking about. On one post you praised the new passing and big play offense, then you "exactly" to we can't do it on another post, that's inconsistent. Back to ZOD, so if this is the phins way of thinking, then it would make sense to put in your speed receivers, as I stated McKnight caught short passes last year and turned them to longer gainers because CB's played off him, respecting his speed, which is why I called him a playmaker. So while I understand your reasoning, I think the play action with Ricky allows the time needed for a long pass. Also if the time's not there, Mcknight has proven he can make the short to intermeditate pass work as well, and CC physical abilities allows him to go over the middle when called for. Again all this is that we as fans, disagree on the strategy that can be used with the players we have. We all see it differently. I quess my one question to every body would be..Who was our best Receiver at the end of last year? Based on OG arguments as to why he should start last year and the coaches caving in, shouldn't McKnight have the honor at this point until someone proves better...As CK wrote, Mcknight's being screwed, which is the basis of this thread anyway. As I've said before, DT is a helluva receiver who will serve us well, but that's not the issue, it's how this situation was handled.
This year Norv said he will use 3rd receiver more often than last year and added more formations.Derrius Thompson still hasn't earn anything and he needs to continue to impress which he is in order to be name the starter.DW may be trying to send a message to J-Mac to not let his guard down.
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But he's earned the status of being called the starter right now, even before pads were really on. And while I know he can carry that mantar, is it really right to do right npw, that's the basis of this whole thread, can any one argue that Mcknight based on his last year's performance and no bad off season, have to be subjective to this right now? I think everyone is missing what CK is saying, OG barked, and this was changed last year. Mcknight has earned the right, until he proves he's not capable of being the #2. He doesn't need motivation or any of that other crap a lot of people have stating here. This guy has been a professional the whole time, could you imagine OG being quit last year if he had to go throught what McKnight went though. This is a quality person who shouldn't have to be subjective to this if he hasn't done anything wrong. I think DT is a better #3 than Mcknight. Mcknights a better #2 to me, this point is more in line with who can go over the middle better of which Muck pointed out, and I agree with, even though McKnight hasn't had to do it.
VanDolPhan
Practice Squad
All I got to say is.......who cares?
As long as it's Chambers/Thompson and McKnight going I am satisfied. McKnight would still get a lot of oppurtunities and in fact might be able to pull off a 45-50 catch season since he should be able to burn most nickel corners. Plus he would still get oppurtunities outside as Chambers slides into the slot.
Only way I'll be happy if McKnight doesn't end up as the 3rd WR is if Tolver really wows people. I'll just be pissed if O.G ends up anywhere in the Top 3. His time has long passed.
Last year McKnight was screwed cause he should have NEVER been passed by Ward and O.G showed nothing to have beaten him for the 2nd. Thompson though is a guy who grabbed over 800 yards in year one. We got to give him the oppurtunity to grab it because if we do we have 2 young guns at WR.
As long as it's Chambers/Thompson and McKnight going I am satisfied. McKnight would still get a lot of oppurtunities and in fact might be able to pull off a 45-50 catch season since he should be able to burn most nickel corners. Plus he would still get oppurtunities outside as Chambers slides into the slot.
Only way I'll be happy if McKnight doesn't end up as the 3rd WR is if Tolver really wows people. I'll just be pissed if O.G ends up anywhere in the Top 3. His time has long passed.
Last year McKnight was screwed cause he should have NEVER been passed by Ward and O.G showed nothing to have beaten him for the 2nd. Thompson though is a guy who grabbed over 800 yards in year one. We got to give him the oppurtunity to grab it because if we do we have 2 young guns at WR.
When did you hear this? I heard Norv/Wanny say they would use the 3 wr set less often b/c they felt there would be many mismatches with Mcmichael, Konrad and RW in the passing game against the other team's base D. This was mentioned when the talk of only keeping 4 wrs was going on.
Thanks, guess I missed it. It'll be interesting to see what the coaches will actually do.
RUDEbyallMEANS
Perennial All-Pro
Well.. Seems as though Derrius Thompsons progress has the coaches excited about having Chambers and a possession receiver opposite of him.. To me, the WR battle was Chambers vs. McKnight for the #1 WR spot and Derrius Thompson vs. Gadsden vs. Tolver for the #2 WR spot.. Reason being that Wanny and Norv wanted a Speed receiver and a possession receiver being in the starting line-up.. With Thompsons emergence in Training Camp and QB schools, Norv and Wanny aren't forced to put Mcknight in with Chambers as the starters 2 speed WR's.. Which if McKnight did become a starter, it would be just that, a factor of Thompson and Gadsden and Tolver not showing much promise.. McKnight will get his chances to make plays.. In 3 WR sets, McKnight would not be the slot WR, from what I heard he had problems with that role and I believe Norv is testing the waters with Chambers being put in the slot in Camps.. Lets not forget the Thompson did very well in Washington from the slot position.. Either way, McKnight will be the outside WR in 3 WR sets from what I understand from past articles..
HURRAH:drinker:
HURRAH:drinker:
finfan54
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the main thng is that we have depth at WR. Norv is going to use his TE's alot and Konrad not just in the passing game but for blocking assignments for ricky. I would think the reason they would go with less 3 wr sets is becuse of the forementioned. Having your TE's in there helps to fool the DEfense.
None of you guys addressed the issue of fairness, not one...To say who cares, shows a lack of integrety..as the coaches are showing Mcknight, the issue is not who will start come Sept. but the way it was done at this point. One standard for OG last year and a different one for Mcknight this year, with both standards screwing McKnight..that's the point you guys are missing in your zest to say why DT should start..Like I said, I don't care if DT starts, because I think he's a quality player, even though I personally would use a different strategy, but that's not here or there..It's the integrety of the decisions that I question, the basic common decency to do the hard right over the easy wrong..And you guys are missing that. It's like if someone offered you the right amount money to skip some one else, you'd do it, even if you know that person was standing for hours before you got there...common respect and decency, morales have gone right by ya'll..Integrety use to mean something, I for one, would like to hold on to it for as long as I can. If Wanny is making a change, he should explain why. He stated that going into this camp, Mcknight was the starter, he stated earlier that Mcknight was their most consistent receiver last year, then before they get in camp one day, he just ups and tell the press DT is the starter...Huh????
relive1972
Premium Member
Huh? Coach don't have to explain anything. He's made a decision probably based off the input he's gotten from Robert Ford and Norv Turner. He's never said McKnight was guaranteed the second starting spot for 2003. He said McKnight was the most consistent receiver in 2002, which was true, but not saying a whole lot when you consider Chambers looked a bit gunshy after his concussion, Gadsden was gone after week 6, and Carter was a wasted effort. He said a few months ago that as of then, McKnight was considered the starter, but that was before they got a good look at Derrius Thompson, JR Tolver, and Gadsden was resigned. He knew nothing of them, of course if you pin him down and make him name a starter, he's obviously going to give it to McKnight. Now that the coaches have had a chance to do some evaluation, they feel Thompson should be the other starter. Nothing wrong with that, and it's best that decision is made now so the right receiver gets the most reps with the 1st team. Does any other coach have to explain each and every move? Do they really owe it to McKnight to leave him the other starter until proven otherwise? This is NFL football, the coach makes a decision and if someone doesn't like it, it's too bad. He has to put the best men out there to do the job he wants, or he might be looking for a job himself. He obviously feels right now that Thompson is the better choice over McKnight. Coach might have sat down with McKnight in private to explain it to him, we don't know if he has or not, and if he did, he's not obligated to tell the rest of the world about it.