Mel Kiper thinks we should have picked Matt Ryan

[Dredd1050]

Mel's pompadore was sewn on too tight.

 

[Vaark]

Exactly. If you don't think that Ryan is a franchise QB then you don't take him #1, bottom line. Kiper might have had a point re: Henne at #32, but not at #57. Somehow I think that even Kiper knows it deep down, but his pride is getting in the way of his logic. Good think that he doesn't trade stocks. J Livermore would scold him. BTW, TRMB is going to pop, take a look at it.

Are you aware that Jesse L lost his bankroll at least twice, declared bankrupcy once and ended up taking his own life? (As an interesting aside, at that point he was married to a woman whose previous 4 or 5 husbands had also done the same, talk about your "red flags"). You're right, Livermore was a realist and made his first fortune early betting against the economy by going short. Unfortunately later on, in terms of following his rules, he didn't always practice the excellent advice he preached. But yes, unlike Kiper, he definitely had an unsentimental grasp on The Street's pulse when he could overcome his own demons. Do you trade???

 

[jim1]

Are you aware that Jesse L lost his bankroll at least twice, declared bankrupcy once and ended up taking his own life? (As an interesting aside, at that point he was married to a woman whose previous 4 or 5 husbands had also done the same, talk about your "red flags"). You're right, Livermore was a realist and made his first fortune early betting against the economy by going short. Unfortunately later on, in terms of following his rules, he didn't always practice the excellent advice he preached. But yes, unlike Kiper, he definitely had an unsentimental grasp on The Street's pulse when he could overcome his own demons. Do you trade???

I just re-read Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. He popped a cap in his head at a hotel in NYC.

 

[dlockz]

Nice find!

But I do not hold stock in what Mel Kiper has to say. Ever since he had the Colts back in 94 taking Dilfer with their #2 pick instead of Marshal Faulk.

All he does is bash draft after draft and has been right....never!

I don't know if anybody remembers when he had Andre Ware QB from U of Houston as an excellent pick and will be a star in the NFL!

What has he ever done to justify even being in a position to make these statements????

He even had Ryan leaf picked over Payton Manning! This guy just pisses me off.

There's some guys on this board that could do a better job! :wave: CK

Everybody misses. You know how many people said that Leaf would be a bust, basically no one. Kiper has made draft prognasticating what it is. He is probably higher paid than any NFL GM and is not the face of the draft for the hell of it. To Kiper this is a fulltime job so it would be very hard for any amateur with a real job to put in the work he does.

 

[Vaark]

I just re-read Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. He popped a cap in his head at a hotel in NYC.

Classic book. The one I keep returning to is also "vintage" and by Edwards & Magee. :up:

 

[PMZQ]

He has said this over and over again, and I still think its dumb. NO QB will succeed behind a suspect OL. Not Matt Ryan. Not Tom Brady. Not Peyton Manning. Its pretty simple actually. MOREOVER, I always tape the draft, and as I watched it over, I heard Kiper talking about who some team could take at the top of the 2nd at QB (maybe the Jets? I forget, but its irrelevant). He said something to the effect of, "You're looking at Brian Brohm, I dont see Henne or Flacco getting out of the first."

So, let me get this straight. He is overrated, but you felt he could be a 1st rounder? AND, it was a bad pick, even considering we got who you considered to be a 1st round value in the LATE 2nd?

Long and Henne > Ryan and Baker

You make too much sense sir, Mel can't understand your logic. :up:

 

[Lappy]

Everybody misses. You know how many people said that Leaf would be a bust, basically no one. Kiper has made draft prognasticating what it is. He is probably higher paid than any NFL GM and is not the face of the draft for the hell of it. To Kiper this is a fulltime job so it would be very hard for any amateur with a real job to put in the work he does.

All he has done IMO has taken the draft from basically being a closed door meeting that no one cared about and made it the spectacle it is today.

He's an excellent marketer and has one hell of a great business mind but he doesn't have the football mind people give him credit for!

Mike Williams, JJ Stokes.....The New England Patriots in 2001 loosing every game!

These are not just misses but colossal mistakes! The pats won the Superbowl that season!

He never played any football or was involved in any football to mention until he started his company sometime in college!

He's a suit that struck when the iron was hot. He's the furthest thing from a great football mind.

 

[PMZQ]

Ryan was definately overrated even in the top ten. Kiper is a moron

I believe Ryan is the next Alex Smith :wink:

 

[Dolfan1000]

How did Atlanta panic, what OL had more value than Ryan at pick 3. No offenisive lineman left was rated higher than Ryan, so u would rather they skip qb and reach for a lesser rated lineman at pick 3. Sam Baker should be able to play left tackle in the NFL the question is how good will he be. He was a 4 year starter for USC and only gave up one sack. His run blocking needs work but he should be a very good pass blocker. They needed an olinemen and Baker was projected as a late first round to early second round pick. The left side of thier line should be very good in pass blocking.

They panicked when they traded up to 21 and reached for Sam Baker because OTs were coming off the board at a rapid pace. Clearly, their plan was to go QB in R1 and take the best available OT in R2. At the pace the first round was going, that OT may have been a guy like an Anthony Collins, who wasnt exactly high 2nd round value.

I think Sam Baker will bust at LT in the NFL. I dont even think he is a sure thing as a RT. If they plan on inserting him at LT, their line may be just as bad as the Dolphins line circa 2004.

My point is that Ryan was only a good pick if they could surround him with talent on the line. They thought they were sitting pretty to do that in the early 2nd, likely targeting Baker there I imagine or perhaps Cherilus, but figured out pretty quick they would have to a) give up picks and b) reach and pay first round money to a guy who may end up just being a guard.

I loved the Jake Long pick, but I REALLY loved it when I saw the run on OTs. Henne and Long > Ryan and Baker IMO.

 

[Dolfan1000]

PS Mel Kiper is not paid more than most NFL GMs. If he is, ESPN is flushing their money down the toilet. Hire Bill Polian and call it a day.

:)

 

[dlockz]

All he has done IMO has taken the draft from basically being a closed door meeting that no one cared about and made it the spectacle it is today.

He's an excellent marketer and has one hell of a great business mind but he doesn't have the football mind people give him credit for!

Mike Williams, JJ Stokes.....The New England Patriots in 2001 loosing every game!

These are not just misses but colossal mistakes! The pats won the Superbowl that season!

He never played any football or was involved in any football to mention until he started his company sometime in college!

He's a suit that struck when the iron was hot. He's the furthest thing from a great football mind.

Suit or not many of the best scouts have never played football in any capacity. Those players you mentioned were not being raved as busts by other gurus either. Name one Gm that has not made a colossal mistake.
Bill Walsh thought Brian Griese would be the best qb in the draft and he has been good but Peyton Manning was in that draft. For every hit there is a miss no matter how good you are.

 

[Lappy]

Suit or not many of the best scouts have never played football in any capacity. Those players you mentioned were not being raved as busts by other gurus either. Name one Gm that has not made a colossal mistake.
Bill Walsh thought Brian Griese would be the best qb in the draft and he has been good but Peyton Manning was in that draft. For every hit there is a miss no matter how good you are.

A GM's number 1 and only job is not drafting players......His is.

IMO he grabbed an opportunity at a time when there was a need. Keep in mind he started this company in the early 80's. There was no compitition.

He has a tendency to take sleepers in the hopes one pans out so he can be known as a genius

 

[Kornnut]

What I don't understand is how he can judge either player because neither has taken a snap yet. Also how would a QB be any good if he was on his back all day?

 

[dlockz]

PS Mel Kiper is not paid more than most NFL GMs. If he is, ESPN is flushing their money down the toilet. Hire Bill Polian and call it a day.

:)

Guarantee you that Kiper's revenue is more than most NFL Gm's.

 

[Marino613]

Just saying at least they tried to get some help on line to protect Ryan and Baker and Blaylock are good building blocks. I think Blaylock will become a premier guard in the league. If Atlanta had not moved up the quality of lineman would have been worse so it was a smart move.

Is this a question over whether Atlanta made good decisions or whether Miami made good decisions? I think both teams did well considering their needs and draft position.

My problem with Kiper is not that he thinks Ryan is good, but that he thinks the Fins made a mistake in taking Long over him. Even if they don't place too much stock in Beck, they still made the right choice. [Edit: As right a choice as anyone can make without knowing the future]