Merged: Cold Pizza/Saban to bring in veteran QB

[DUB]

If I was a head coach looking for a qb early in the draft, I would talk about bringing in a veteran...would Nick?

 

[LarryFinFan]

The more I think of it, Veteran means Steve Mcnair to me. WHile this would seem horrible to some of you, I think this would be great for the Dolphins. Steve is the nicest guy you could want in your city, the best leader you could want for your team. Hands down one of the best qbs in the nfl when healthy, and would be the most talented guy behind the helm since marino. There are 3 key reasons why I like this move if it is indeed where we are heading.
1. mcnair can come in and have immediated success. Hes been in this league a long time and can flat out play. some people dont take into account that of course they will sit him due to injury when the team isnt even in contention, but when it counts this guy plays through any pain imaginable.
2. Playoff experience. Hes been in the big games and would do a good job leading the young guys on our offense through it.
3. There are 3 people on this site. People who hate Cleo Lemon for no reason other than they dont know anything about him, people who are indifferent and anxious to see him play, and people who have seen him play before and expect this kid to be phenominal. Everyone rightfully has their own opinion. Living in San Diego I have watched Lemon in practices, preseason games, etc. I can tell you that Lemon was a fan favorite here. When he was traded to Miami, I dont think there was anyone else in the league other than Manning or Culpepper that I would have rather traded for. I think Lemon will be amazing, and there is no one better to learn from than Steve Mcnair. I believe Steve would shock everyone and come in here and stay healthy, play pro bowl football. But either way, Lemon would be on the bench learning from him, becoming more comfortable with the team, and preparing to take over. I dont care what some of the people on this forum think. You know, the people who bash Lemon no matter what. I think Saban brought him here to take over, and if thats the case who is anyone to argue with him?

Your arguments for McNair are as valid as for just about any other veteran QB. But the reason most of us are not sold on Lemon is that we haven't seen him. On the surface, this trade was made so that the team would not be distracted with an AJ vs. Frerotte battle. Surely around about the first Jests game, people/players would have been clamoring for AJ because Gus was stinking it up...He never really got much better, but that also was not a surprise to Saban, I'm sure. Now Saban either has to go with Lemon or get a better veteran backup...we'll see which way it goes once FA starts...

 

[KingNick88]

Yo

Rumour has it that it could be Daunte leaving Minnesota. Something to think about.

 

[finfan54]

This thread should rot in hell.

 

[LarryFinFan]

Give me a break, Trekbiz, you have no idea if all of those are unavailable... if the price is right, most of them probably will be.

Or do you only want a QB we can get for free?

"''Hey, free agency and trading season hasn't started! So NOBODY is available! We're going to have to start someone from NFL Europe! Oh, noes! We're gonna lose!"

There are a ton of options that the Dolphins are already looking at... and they are looking at EVERYBODY.

Well, Brees is technically an UFA, so that makes him available. It does appear that SD will re-sign him, but you never know.
Besides, they more or less have to do something with Rivers and/or Brees. Rivers can easily turn into a cancer if he is not given an opportunity, there or elsewhere and if they should struggle with Brees in the beginning of the season...look out...so logic says one or the other could be available. The latest reports are that Brees injury is going to heal fine. That could change.

McNair might be frail (he's older but 3 years younger than Gus) but if healthy is 100 times the QB Gus is...

Culpepper...right...won't be healthy enough for a trade this year, but is definitely better than Gus. (Probably with the bad knee).

Carr...you're right, no one knows exactly what Houston is going to do and they've put out the word that they'll draft Bush, but on the other hand, is any team going to be giving good info about their potential draft picks in January ??? I doubt it...And given the right cast around him, he'd be better than Gus. I wouldn't exactly call him a 'veteran' at this point yet, so he may not be on Saban's radar...

Ramsey...is an interesting case...better athlete than Gus. He wants out of Wash since Brunnell is the man and Campbell is the heir apparent...so that's a real possiblity. Not exactly a 'veteran' either, but more potentail than Gus ever had.

Garrard, Kitna, McCown, Johnson...all could be available. Sure, Kitna probably isn't going anywhere due to Palmer's injury, but he wants to be given a chance as a starter, and won't get it there. He has to be re-signed by Cincy, so he is still a possiblity...Garrard is under contract but stranger things have happened. McCown is the best possibility...Johnson stays in Minny due to Culpepper's injury but is an UFA. Brooks is another possibility if they decide to go a different way...

The point is that we really don't know just yet who is really available and your arguments didn't prove me or nopony wrong in any way. There ARE options for us out there. Gus is not the answer and has proven that soundly here this year. Anyone who believes that Gus did "Ok" is just enamored with any QB who doesn't throw as many pick 6's as TD passes....

 

[GRYPHONK]

So who do you think we should bring?

McNair would be my guess. Who knows maybe he brings back Fiedler =OP

 

[nopony]

Posters like Nopony have been riding Saban endlessly over his "lack" of bringing in a top QB last year when quite frankly he did about the best he could.

Ok, Trekbiz... that's the second thing you've said about me that isn't remotely true.

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else?

I have ridden Saban for what he did last offseason exactly ZERO.

I have said over and over again that he was between a rock and a hard place, with no real good options this season.

I have said that he was stuck this year, but absolutely had to make a move at that postion this offseason... which is exactly what he's doing.

Seriously, I think maybe you are comfusing me or lumping me in with someone else.

 

[Mainge]

Brees for sure Not available]

Why so quick to jump the gun? His injury may complicate contract details, and who knows if an agreement can be reached. SD has a fall back plan in Rivers.

Rivers for sure SD has said not trading Not avail.]

The Vikings also repeatedly said Moss isn't going anywhere..
Rivers is getting paid a boat load of money, and boy doesn't a DB or WR look pretty good to them right now.

McNair for sure For sure? He's frail and old. I agree that he could probably come in and be an improvement but it's no guarantee not to mention that Tenn. has stated that they want to keep him so yet again your looking at probably NOT AVAIL.]

So? Miami wanted to keep O-gun too.
Ricky for McNair and a 4th anyone?

Culpepper for sure if healthy. Well we know he won't be and no decision has been made on whether Minny will keep him or not so NOT AVAIL.]

Agreed...and his potential value with us goes down with Linehan gone.

Word out of Houston has been that they will keep Carr and draft Bush. NOT AVAIL[/COLOR]]

Word out of Miami last year was we wanted Braylon Edwards. Could be same situation there.

Ramsey better Ramsey has shown little potential. In addition, Brunell is older than dirt, so there's no real reason to believe Wash is going to cut ties with Ramsey, NOT AVAIL.]

They drafted a kid by the name of Jason Campbell to be Brunell's successor.

Garrad better Maybe but yet again, NOT AVAIL. could be via trade but at what price?]

I doubt he becomes a trade option. Jax may have missed out on the play-offs without him.

Kitna - marginally better, but better. A chance to be much better. Do you really think Cincy is going to cut him loose with the uncertainty of Palmers future? NOT AVAIL]

Agreed.

McCown - marginally better, but with a chance to be a ton better. Well you finally listed ONE QB that is available to back up your "tons of options" theory. Congrats on that!
I agree he has potential to be better but the pitfalls he has had in his career do not make him a clear shot at being better]

Agreed. If Saban thinks hes worth it, then why not?

Brad Johnson - a ton better I don't agree there. He could be an upgrade but his utter lack of mobility is a major negative and as of yet NOT AVAIL!]

Agreed, another Gus Frerrotte.

 

[VA Phin Fan]

Heard something on the local ESPN radio that Aaron Brooks is coming to Miami. Not sure how I feel about that......

 

[nopony]

Heard something on the local ESPN radio that Aaron Brooks is coming to Miami. Not sure how I feel about that......

I would hope that Saban or Mueller know something that I don't, if that's true. Brooks was way down on my list. Higher than Ferotte, but not much.

Referenceing earlier posts:

Re: Kelly Holcomb

He would be a really big upgrade. He was actually playing pretty dang well in Buffalo before they got Losman fever.

Re: Brad Johnson

There are some similiarities between Ferotte and Johnson... except Johnson is better in almost every way.

He is not the future and not my favorite QB anyway, but there is no arguing but that he would be a much, much better short term answer than Gus.

Re: McNair

There is so much wrong perception and misinformation about McNair.

He is my take on McNair as a Dolphin:

Injury concerns. Two types... one was the freak injury he had last year. It was not a long-term injury or a re-injury risk. the second is the little injuries...

Things you might not know...

In the last six years, aside from the injury year last year, he has played in at least 14 games every year and he has thrown 400 passes a year.


He is YOUNGER than ferotte and the perfect age actually to groom a young QB project.

Just as a comparison... this year Steve completed 61.3 (!) % of his passes. (gus= 52%)

this year Steve had a YPA of 6.64. (gus= 6.06)

He also had a better TD/INT ratio than Gus.

He is MILES better than Ferotte, has an equally strong arm and is not much, if any, more of an injury concern.

He is a perfect 2-3 year QB while we groom a rookie. He is not a playoff liability.

And this:

One more thing about McNair... the year before his injury, 2003, he was just hitting his stride as a mature QB.

In 2003 he did this:

Completed 250 of 400 passes for an amazing completion percentage of 62.5%!

Threw for 3215 yards.

Had an astounding YPA of 8.04!

Threw 46 passes over 20 yards and 11 over 40.

And threw 24 touchdowns and 7 INTs. 7! Can you imagine?

This was his age 30 season.

If he had a year like that or even close to it, we are superbowl contenders.

And he's only 32 and a year further removed from that injury.

I have no idea if we can get him... but if we can, I personally think he would be a great option.

 

[BE GOOD]

I'd love to see McNair here. Carr would be awesome too.

 

[dominizzo]

look Mueller knows alot about Brooks so i think hes the next signal caller

 

[mbsinmisc]

I have alway been a big fan of McNair. He would be a huge upgrade. I wonder if a package of Sam and Booker would interest Tenn?

 

[phinphan11]

why you people love cleo lemon and are anxious about a proven winner, is BEYOND me.

cleo lemon was just a roster filler! why doesn't anyone see this? We wanted to get rid of Feeley's stupid contract, so in order to take him on, they had 1 more qb than was needed. so they give us their worst qb= CLEO LEMON! get over him.

How can you be so sure of this? I suppose your record of finding QBs is better than the current Phin's staff? What's wrong with hoping that he will be a diamond in the rough, ala Jake Jake Delhomme, who, by the way is playing in the SB next week.

As far as the "proven winner", (Steve McNair?) who is there that's a slam dunk that doesn't have major baggage?

 

[Caps]

How can you be so sure of this? I suppose your record of finding QBs is better than the current Phin's staff? What's wrong with hoping that he will be a diamond in the rough, ala Jake Delhomme, who, by the way is playing in the SB next week.

As far as the "proven winner", (Steve McNair?) who is there that's a slam dunk that doesn't have major baggage?

I think you mean Hasselbeck.