Merged: Coulda, woulda, shoulda/Drew Brees

[lereux]

We could have selected Tom brady also. Back in 2000.

 

[CsonkaClone]

To add to that, he is looking Great from our standpoint now that he is somewhere else and we have a great coach to replace him.

So true!

 

[rafael]

The trade was announced PRIOR to the start of the draft. The morning of the draft Chris Mortenson reported miami traded out of their slot.

The night before the draft Mort reported that Moss' stock has fallen and many teams took him off their draft boards and moss will be avaliable around 20.

I knew it occurred prior to the draft but most fans didn't tune in until after that. Hence it was a big surprise to most fans. This explains why they were surprised. I remember many posts (not this msg board) thinking that the trade had just occurred.

Just b/c one reporter says something doesn't mean everybody agrees. Especially the night before the draft when misinformation is common.

 

[eddie4fins]

I can't stop thinking about this. Nothing against Gus, he's been doing a really good job, BUT,

WHAT IF the previous coach, who shall remain unmentioned, had drafted Drew Brees when he was available instead of Eddie Moore?

He would have probably got destroyed in our Pop Warner offense and ruined his career!

 

[shellgh0st]

I knew it occurred prior to the draft but most fans didn't tune in until after that. Hence it was a big surprise to most fans. This explains why they were surprised. I remember many posts (not this msg board) thinking that the trade had just occurred.

Just b/c one reporter says something doesn't mean everybody agrees. Especially the night before the draft when misinformation is common.

Lots of people had moss going in different ranges in the draft. And the closer the draft came the more rumors came out that teams were going to pass up on him.

In these SI links leading up to that draft (about a week or so) one mentions moss going from 7th overall to 28th overall and the other reporter has a mock where he says Moss will go 15th overall. To think that JJ had NO IDEA that moss couldve fallen to 19 when SI reporters suggested Moss was going to fall and Mort reported 'could be a big fall for moss, expect him to be selected around 20' is crazy. JJ simply didnt want to take moss. Bottom line, if he thought 'this guy is a HOF talent' he wouldve made a play for him. Instead he traded out. Which turned out to be a horrible move.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/news/1998/04/15/montville_commentary/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/drz/zimmock.html

 

[spike owen]

Not to mention I recall a perturbed Jimmy Johnson saying he didn't think Randy Moss would be that good and that he thought his 3rd round draft pick Larry Shannon had all the tools to be as good or better than Moss. But, hey, sometimes you're wrong. That's why it's so important to stockpile as many picks as possible. That's how you build a solid, reasonably priced team for the future.

 

[shellgh0st]

Not to mention I recall a perturbed Jimmy Johnson saying he didn't think Randy Moss would be that good and that he thought his 3rd round draft pick Larry Shannon had all the tools to be as good or better than Moss. But, hey, sometimes you're wrong. That's why it's so important to stockpile as many picks as possible. That's how you build a solid, reasonably priced team for the future.

Yeah, JJ always seemed to be harping about how Moss wasnt that good (this was during preseason and the first 6 weeks of the season) and that 'there is no such thing as WR separation' because fans were so upset we passed on moss and moss offered 'separation' from DBs. Then Moss exploded on MNF and that thanksgiving game and JJ pretty much shutted up. But, prior to that JJ kept talking about 'I wouldve drafted Holiday if we stayed at 19 and not moss'

My theory is, the main reason JJ stayed away from Moss was because of L. Phillips. JJ was interested in moving up for Phillips but didnt have the picks to get him. JJ seemed convinced that Phillips would be a star. Then JJ saw how Phillips (along with his bad character label) flopped big time his first year. So he used that as a template to judge moss, who was also a superstar in college, however, was labeled a bad character.

L. Phillips is what made many teams take Moss off their draft boards. Had Phillips exploded onto the NFL, teams wouldve been more willing to over look Moss' character issues.

 

[rafael]

Lots of people had moss going in different ranges in the draft. And the closer the draft came the more rumors came out that teams were going to pass up on him.

In these SI links leading up to that draft (about a week or so) one mentions moss going from 7th overall to 28th overall and the other reporter has a mock where he says Moss will go 15th overall. To think that JJ had NO IDEA that moss couldve fallen to 19 when SI reporters suggested Moss was going to fall and Mort reported 'could be a big fall for moss, expect him to be selected around 20' is crazy. JJ simply didnt want to take moss. Bottom line, if he thought 'this guy is a HOF talent' he wouldve made a play for him. Instead he traded out. Which turned out to be a horrible move.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/news/1998/04/15/montville_commentary/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/drz/zimmock.html

My point is there was a mix of opinion, which is different than your statement that it was clear. That implies everybody knew.

Personally, I don't think JJ would have taken Moss, but we don't know. We do know, however, that it is inaccurate to say we passed on Moss.

 

[wazzy]

Drew Brees was so horrible when he first started playing for San Diego so it would of only been worse if he came to Miami and he would stay a 3rd stringer for the rest of his life.

 

[SweepeR]

hey is there a mock draft for 06 from SI?

 

[shellgh0st]

My point is there was a mix of opinion, which is different than your statement that it was clear. That implies everybody knew.

Personally, I don't think JJ would have taken Moss, but we don't know. We do know, however, that it is inaccurate to say we passed on Moss.

No, it was accurate to say we passed on going after Moss. Had we wanted him, he was there for the taking and that is CLEAR. It is clear we didnt want him, we made no move to go after him (move up in the draft) when everyone (and yes I use this term loosely) knew Moss was falling down the draft board.

Ive shown more then one place that said he was going outside of the top ten. If I had time I would look up the info on all the teams from that time that said 'Moss is off our draft board' Anyone who did some leg work and research would have known moss wasn't going in the top 13 picks and if Miami wanted him they could've targetted him and moved up if need be to get him.

 

[rafael]

No, it was accurate to say we passed on going after Moss. Had we wanted him, he was there for the taking and that is CLEAR. It is clear we didnt want him, we made no move to go after him (move up in the draft) when everyone (and yes I use this term loosely) knew Moss was falling down the draft board.

Ive shown more then one place that said he was going outside of the top ten. If I had time I would look up the info on all the teams from that time that said 'Moss is off our draft board' Anyone who did some leg work and research would have known moss wasn't going in the top 13 picks and if Miami wanted him they could've targetted him and moved up if need be to get him.

There is a difference between saying we passed on going after Moss and we passed on him. The original post said we passed on him. That's inaccurate. He never got a chance to pick him. Using your terminology we essentially passed on going after anyone whom we didn't actually pick b/c the truth is you could always trade enough to move up.

 

[shellgh0st]

There is a difference between saying we passed on going after Moss and we passed on him. The original post said we passed on him. That's inaccurate. He never got a chance to pick him. Using your terminology we essentially passed on going after anyone whom we didn't actually pick b/c the truth is you could always trade enough to move up.

I disagree (you knew I would) because Moss actually did fall to the spot we originally had. Hence, passing him up.

For example, and to make it real simple to understand, if a team has the number 1 pick overall (lets say the 49ers like this past draft) and they select to move out of the number 1 spot prior to the draft, you can say 'they passed on taking A. Smith and everyone else at number 1'

Just as you can say, by moving out of ANY position that a team PASSED on taking ANY player that ends up being available there.

By doing it prior to the draft, JJ, basically passed BLINDLY. But in fact, anyone taken at that spot or later can be said to have been PASSED UP by JJ because he moved out of that draft slot.

EDIT: also, the important part to all this and what I stated in my original post is, JJ admitted he wouldnt have even taken Moss had he stayed at 19! He said he wouldve taken Holiday instead. So, he even admitted he wouldve passed on Moss had he kept that pick. Either way, he passed on Moss.

 

[rafael]

I disagree (you knew I would) because Moss actually did fall to the spot we originally had. Hence, passing him up.

For example, and to make it real simple to understand, if a team has the number 1 pick overall (lets say the 49ers like this past draft) and they select to move out of the number 1 spot prior to the draft, you can say 'they passed on taking A. Smith and everyone else at number 1'

Just as you can say, by moving out of ANY position that a team PASSED on taking ANY player that ends up being available there.

By doing it prior to the draft, JJ, basically passed BLINDLY. But in fact, anyone taken at that spot or later can be said to have been PASSED UP by JJ because he moved out of that draft slot.

The #1 pick is different b/c you actually have the right to pick anyone. After that it depends on who's there when your pick comes up. We didn't pass on Webster (LSU cb that Saban wanted) b/c RS traded our 2nd round pick before the draft. You can't pass on someone until you're on the clock and they're available.

 

[shellgh0st]

The #1 pick is different b/c you actually have the right to pick anyone. After that it depends on who's there when your pick comes up. We didn't pass on Webster (LSU cb that Saban wanted) b/c RS traded our 2nd round pick before the draft. You can't pass on someone until you're on the clock and they're available.

Totally missing the point.

Simply by electing to move out of that position you have passed up on every player available at that spot. If you do it blindly or do it during your pick, it makes no difference.

Had we traded away the second pick in this draft PRIOR to the draft, it could be said we elected to pass on EVERY player available at #2. Even though we did so PRIOR to the draft.