Merged: Matt Leinart | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Matt Leinart

waypoint said:
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert.


So being a BIG SC fan, how are you going to give a FAIR opinion. Your opinions are already biased. Big fans of College Football can give a FAIR opinion since we look at all the QB's that are playing and not just focusing on ONE. Plus, Leinert is a good QB on the team, BUT I don't think he has what it takes to be a good QB in the NFL. He has great talent around him to make him look as a good QB in the college ranks.
 
kastofsna120 said:
yeah but.....he got a roommate! and he's immature because he decided to stick around for his senior season! he's taking a dancing class! HE'LL BE A BUST!

He doesn't appear to be overly ambitious or very hungry to get to the next level. That concerns me, especially, when considering what a team will have to invest in him.
 
waypoint said:
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert. Unlike alot of the people on the board, I havent just seen a handful of matt's games.... I have seen every single one.... above that I also saw him 3 games in high school.... above even that I have been an SC fan for 25 years, and therefore have also seen all but 2 of carson palmer's games,etc etc. ... First off I would like to say ANYONE who is comparing leinert to the likes of andre ware, josh huepel, or ken dorsey have no idea what they are talking about. They either havent seen matt play more than a game or two or they are making statements with absolutely no foundation. I have seen alot of posts asking for a comparison of carson palmer to matt leinert, so here it goes...

ARM STRENGTH- Carson has and has always had one of the finest arms I have seen. maybe not dan marino or warren moon, but in todays NFL standards he has a rifle. Matt leinert doesnt have that kind of arm, no news flash there but he IS NOT josh huepel either. Matt wont be throwing brett favre type rifles to his recievers in themid range passing game, he simply doesnt have that kind of ability. This being said, matt still has a good arm... matt actually EXCELS at throwing the ball downfield. His lack of a marino type arm has never kept him from throw the ball deep down the field. I think he has every bit the arm strength of a alex smith, brian griese, tom brady or even (gasp!) a peyton manning. If everyone remembers correctly, one of the biggest knocks on peyton coming out to the NFL was his arm strength.... and I see leinert evaluated in a simliar way. Peyton wasnt known for the zip he put on the ball either, but it never hindered him now or then on throwing the ball deep down the field. Matt is the same way, he doesnt have great zip but he can deliver a big throw down the field.....

ACCURACY- Carson was a VERY streaky QB at USC when it came to accuracy. SC fans and coaches always expected alot of carson, even as a freshman but he was prone to going through extended periods of inaccuracy right up until midway through his senior year. It took carson awhile to get get the idea of putting the right kind of "touch" on certain throws. Even now when I watch carson I see a couple throws that he still struggles with his touch on. As for Leinert, in my book, he is the king of the touch thrown. What he does so well, is put the ball where he only gives his reciever a chance to catch it. He is also a master at being able to throw the ball to places where he can hit his reciever in stride, which in turn gives the WR a chance to make plays down the field after the catch. Matt is simply the best I have ever seen at this at USC or almost anywhere else... he is the most accurate QB at his age I have probably ever seen ....

INTELLIGENCE/DECISION MAKING- This was the biggest downfall for carson at USC as almost any true trojan fan will tell you. Carson could make the big play and then on the next play make a throwing a decision that would almost make you choke on your bratwurst. It was something as a fan, that would always be in the back of your mind in any SC game with carson at QB. there would be almost no doubt he was gonna thrown for close to 300 yeard with a couple TD'S (especially his jr and sr years) but when was bad decision carson going to rear its ugly head.... we almost would wait for it every game. Now to leinert...I can say this is one problem we have never had. Most of matt's INT's come from tipped or dropped balls.... he rarely ever makes a bad decision on where to throw the football. Part of this is because he has alot of playmakers around him, but part of it is because he simply a very quick and smart decision maker. This is one spot where Matt is simply head and shoulders above carson. Matt also is a great student of the game and has the ability to call his own plays at the line. He is VERY peyton-esk at the line of scrimmage, he can audible to the right play and knows how to read a defense.... IMO this is matt's greatest future strength, he will be able to be a great field general and knows what plays to call to beat the defensive formation.

POCKET PRESENCE/SCRAMBLING- ok I am running out of time so I am combining this and making it a rather quick analysis. Carson, while not a classic scrambler was excellent at buying time in the pocket, making the first rusher miss and zipping the ball around the field. MANY MANY a yard was made this way with carson at SC. He would buy his WR's a little extra time to get open and fire away. Matt is NOT very fleet of foot and I think it will show some early in his NFL career while he catches up to the speed of the game. But matt does a great job of staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball with the rush in his face. Simply MATT makes some very very gutsy throws and take some big hits for it.... good news is the matt is a VERY big QB and can absorb some big hits... although I do worry he may get hurt standing in against the rush in the NFL every play.

In short.... I like Leinert more as a player than palmer... I think Matt has the ability to be a great game manager ala tom brady and win football games in many ways....but despite what some believe, he DOES have the ability to take over a game here and there and simply pass his way to victory. Alot has been said about the talent around matt but I will leave you with this.... how many other college QB's have won with almost exclusively younger playmakers around him??? leinert has turned freshman like mike williams and dwayne jarrett into stars as freshmen and sophmores, NOT the other way around.... who was the last QB to basically turn freshman WR to superstars??? and believe me, without leinert those guys never would have made a name for themselves that early...


jim


Nick Lachey in da house? :rofl:
 
The thing about arm strength in the NFL is it is a make or break attribute. A great deal of arm strength does not necessarily make a QB good...but a big lack of arm strength can most definitely make a QB bad.

So what you look for generally is a QB's arsenal of weapons, and his decision-making record in choosing between those weapons. Some QBs have such good armstrength that they use that alone as a weapon on a lot of plays, and it is a very effective one. A guy with a huge cannon on his shoulders will almost always command the respect of every defender on the field, regardless of what else is going on. A guy with a wimpy arm will most often draw the DISrespect of the defenders on the field. Look at how people talk about Chad Pennington despite him probably being the most accurate passer in the league. Some other QBs use accuracy or pocket presence as a weapon. Marino use to frustrate the HECK out of defensive linemen, especially Bruce Smith, because he would ALWAYS fire that ball off before Bruce got to him. It's demoralizing for a DL. DBs will get frustrated as all heck if your guy is so accurate that even keeping tight coverage with your man doesn't matter because the QB is putting the ball where only the receiver can get it.

In offense, often half the battle is won with threats, rather than actual production. If your arm is so good that it commands the respect of everyone on the field, you'll notice safeties backing up a little bit more to cover deep, you'll notice corners playing more edgy against the WRs and looking back at the QB more to get a better chance at seeing the pass coming...etc. If you have great pocket presence and always get the ball out before the sack comes, you'll see all sorts of strange behaviors from the DL as they get more desperate. And, with the accuracy issue, much like the armstrength, you'll see DBs gamble a little bit more trying to get a jump on the ball.

Anyway, back to armstrength, it is folly to single out any one attribute and say that it is the single most important issue...because no QB makes it with just armstrength and no accuracy, no QB makes it with just accuracy and no armstrength, nobody makes it without good decision making, and awful pocket presence can torpedo an otherwise good QB's career (ask Rob Johnson). But, that said, armstrength, IMO, gets you the most bang for your buck in terms of sacrificing some of the other attributes for it, and the other way around. If you have a weak arm for an NFL starter, you need to be so insanely accurate and make such insanely good decisions to end up a good QB, that most QBs aren't able to sustain good careers that way.

Let's look at Drew Brees as an example. Biggest knock on him coming out was not height. He would have been drafted higher if it was just height. It was armstrength, which for an NFL starter was marginal to say the least. For I believe three years, he wallows away...not doing anything special. Then, he sees a training specialist, who modifies his diet, modifies his training regiment, and actually modifies his throwing motion. Whatever voodoo he did, I don't claim to know how it worked, all I know is the results: which were that, all the sudden, he has like 10% more velocity on his throws...timed by Schottenheimer himself. Bam, Drew Brees is a freaking pro bowler. Just like that. A guy who made his way before on mobility, decision-making, game management, and accuracy struggled in the NFL because of his height and armstrength. He improves the armstrength, and everything else clicks. Now, you go ahead and watch him play. His arm is not marginal at all. In the EA Sports long throw competition he actually threw further than I believe Joey Harrington and Ben Roethlisberger.
 
Lets just pick a QB in every round except the 1st (CB or LT or WR). Take the 2 with the most promise and see how it goes from there.
 
Logically speaking, btw, as NFL defensive backs and linebackers continue to get faster than they've ever been in NFL history (which is true), the field is getting smaller. If the field is getting smaller, that means that armstrength is evolving into a more and more important issue as NFL defenses get faster and faster and are able to cover more and more ground while the ball is in the air. The guys who throw passes that take the least amount of time to get there (strong arms), are surviving, and the guys who can't do that are not.

I firmly believe that Joe Montana would stand a good chance at being a marginal QB in today's NFL.
 
finfan75 said:
Lets just pick a QB in every round except the 1st (CB or LT or WR). Take the 2 with the most promise and see how it goes from there.

:roflmao:
 
So being a BIG SC fan, how are you going to give a FAIR opinion. Your opinions are already biased. Big fans of College Football can give a FAIR opinion since we look at all the QB's that are playing and not just focusing on ONE. Plus, Leinert is a good QB on the team, BUT I don't think he has what it takes to be a good QB in the NFL. He has great talent around him to make him look as a good QB in the college ranks.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I am giving a fair opinion by comparing him to a former #1 pick from SC who is now a pro bowl QB in the NFL...that is HOW.... now if I came on here talkin this or that about either of those guys WITHOUT knocking any part of there game or critizing them, THEN I would be bias and without a fair opinion. I gave a complete profile, knocking BOTH SC QB's weaknesses and giving both credit in parts of there game that are strengths... I would say that makes it a very fair comparison... I didnt come on here praising rodney peete or anything, I came on here giving a fair analysis after seeing both play almost every game..... I am more than capable of giving an unbias opinion for teams I root for, would you like one for the fins QB position too??? yea, I didnt think so .... I am just tired of seeing all these people who have never even seen the guy play trying to make comparisons to josh heupel or whomever else....
 
ether79 said:
Sure I bet you wouldn't take Carson Palmer.:rolleyes:

No...I rather Brady Quinn...if he comes out....Vince Young...if comes out...if not I'll wait till next year...and play Lemon or Sage.
 
Such a big fan......and he can't even spell Leinart.<<<<<<<<<

I am a big fan of USC not leinart in general, although I would love to see him in a fins uniform. Not to mention, USC doesnt carry names on the back of the jersey's so it isnt like I am staring at the correct spelling of his name all the time. I am also a big fan of alot of things I cant spell, maybe that makes me illiterate but doesnt say a damn thing about my opinion on those things... thanx for the lesson teach ...
 
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