Merged: Shifting Gears: Croyle, Whitehurst, and...McNeal

[Motion]

Does that mean you're ok with the following statement: "The Dolphins took Jay Cutler in the first round of the draft, even though it is more likely than not that is he going to be a bust."

Ok with? No if that means I believe it. I truly believe he has what it takes to be a franchise QB in the NFL and I've been saying it all season. :goof:

 

[SammySmif]

That's great, but scouts are so who cares?

In late January scouts are already sold on Whitehurst? Says who? I just am not buying that at all..they haven't even had the combines yet..any scout that is "sold" already is an amatuer and should be fired.

 

[djfresh47]

Where is fishypete when you need him? He's been saying since day 1 that Cutler was overhyped. That's not what the REAL experts are saying. I guess Pete is not the expert he THINKS he is. Sorry to say we might have to trade up to get Cutler or settle for Croyle in round 2.

I think he is overhyped, like Kyle Boller was when he came out, like Jason Campbell was last year, although nobody can make an assessment yet on how they turn out. I think he's got talent, but it seems that Mayock is trying to be his agent when he reports on him. I'm all for drafting a Qb in rd 1, and I think Cutler would be the choice if he were available at 16, but if a team takes him in the top 10, it would be because a team is desperate for a Qb, like many are. The bandwagon for him has gotten huge, and I wonder how many people have actually watched him, or how many just like the idea of drafting a Qb that "experts" say is the real deal. I do believe he is the 3rd best Qb in the draft, and I just don't know if their will be 3 top ten Qb's, so I think he'll be available at 16 unless someone trades up.

 

[ckparrothead]

Ok with? No if that means I believe it. I truly believe he has what it takes to be a franchise QB in the NFL and I've been saying it all season. :goof:

Yeah but you have to have an appreciation for what you do not know or where you might be wrong. The historical success rate in this situation is right around 30-35 percent. If you are lucky enough to have hit that 30-35 percent area you've got a QB that can run your team for years and years and years. If not, you probably have bad QB play for the next 3 years while you wait for the guy to come around and he doesn't. On top of that you ask the question, do we give up a Ricky Williams for the right to take that chance.

It's tough, man. You have to roll the dice if you want to win, and Wannstedt's problem is he wouldn't ever roll the damn dice...and that is why our QB situation is so bad; constant underinvestment.

That percentage scares a lot of people away. They look at how many teams have won a super bowl without having drafted a first round QB and they say see, you don't need to draft a first round QB. But I think history has also shown that the best way to win consistently (including Super Bowls) is to have a good QB and the best, most reliable way to get a good QB is to draft one high in the first round.

 

[rafael]

Yeah but you have to have an appreciation for what you do not know or where you might be wrong. The historical success rate in this situation is right around 30-35 percent. If you are lucky enough to have hit that 30-35 percent area you've got a QB that can run your team for years and years and years. If not, you probably have bad QB play for the next 3 years while you wait for the guy to come around and he doesn't. On top of that you ask the question, do we give up a Ricky Williams for the right to take that chance.

It's tough, man. You have to roll the dice if you want to win, and Wannstedt's problem is he wouldn't ever roll the damn dice...and that is why our QB situation is so bad; constant underinvestment.

That percentage scares a lot of people away. They look at how many teams have won a super bowl without having drafted a first round QB and they say see, you don't need to draft a first round QB. But I think history has also shown that the best way to win consistently (including Super Bowls) is to have a good QB and the best, most reliable way to get a good QB is to draft one high in the first round.

IMO, you need a QB. The alternatives are trading for somebody's backup or looking for the next Brady in the late rounds. I find the percentages for the alternatives to be even scarier.

 

[Jaj]

The best alternative and smartest is probably trading down this year to the late 1st round range, trading Ricky for picks including one this year and a conditional next year, and drafting a safety net in the 3rd right now. That way next year most likely the Fins can have say atleast an extra 2nd and 3rd and still have received more picks in the year before. Then with two 2nds the team can probably now trade up to get a good QB.

 

[ckparrothead]

I'm with you. We need to try and win as much as we can right now but as far as drafting, drafting is and always has been investment in the future, and good investing requires a lot of draft picks to invest with.

There are definitely a fair few players that would entice me out of trading down...and if I did not feel the offer for Ricky was right I would not do it...but we should try those things.

 

[Motion]

I think he is overhyped, like Kyle Boller was when he came out, like Jason Campbell was last year.

:confused: There was hype for Campbell?

 

[Motion]

Yeah but you have to have an appreciation for what you do not know or where you might be wrong. The historical success rate in this situation is right around 30-35 percent. If you are lucky enough to have hit that 30-35 percent area you've got a QB that can run your team for years and years and years. If not, you probably have bad QB play for the next 3 years while you wait for the guy to come around and he doesn't. On top of that you ask the question, do we give up a Ricky Williams for the right to take that chance.

It's tough, man. You have to roll the dice if you want to win, and Wannstedt's problem is he wouldn't ever roll the damn dice...and that is why our QB situation is so bad; constant underinvestment.

That percentage scares a lot of people away. They look at how many teams have won a super bowl without having drafted a first round QB and they say see, you don't need to draft a first round QB. But I think history has also shown that the best way to win consistently (including Super Bowls) is to have a good QB and the best, most reliable way to get a good QB is to draft one high in the first round.

Very well put. Yes its a gamble, but one you have to take. You simply cannot win in the NFL without a playmaker at QB.

 

[Jaj]

In late January scouts are already sold on Whitehurst? Says who? I just am not buying that at all..they haven't even had the combines yet..any scout that is "sold" already is an amatuer and should be fired.

That's completely off. You can't change your ability on a certain pass. It's there or it isn't. He has the arm strength to do it. That's NEVER been a question.

 

[Jaj]

See the point is this year is not the last year that there will be three probable 1st round QBs. Next year Quinn and Stanton are definitely there barring complete collapses in their senior seasons. The third rising candidate is not known to this point, however I don't feel confident in spending more than Ricky to trade up for Cutler.

 

[Caps]

:confused: There was hype for Campbell?

Yeah, you didn't know that? He was a second rounder during pretty much the entire scouting process, then next thing you know the Redskins are trading into the 1st round to nab him. He was seriously hyped up.

 

[Motion]

Yeah, you didn't know that? He was a second rounder during pretty much the entire scouting process, then next thing you know the Redskins are trading into the 1st round to nab him. He was seriously hyped up.

Well personally I just thought it was a reach. I don't remember hearing alot of hype for him other than him being an early 2nd rounder.

 

[PhinstiGator]

Well personally I just thought it was a reach. I don't remember hearing alot of hype for him other than him being an early 2nd rounder.

Campbell was a reach...but, the guy that the Redskins were hoping to get was MATT JONES. The skins had two 1st rounders and Gibbs really, really wanted to get a WR. Campbell was plan B...but, he could turn out to be a better NFL prospect than the top 2 QB's.

 

[Motion]

Campbell was plan B...but, he could turn out to be a better NFL prospect than the top 2 QB's.

Very possible.


Yeah, WR is definitely Washington's top priority. TO perhaps?