Miami Dolphins’ current view of Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert might surprise you

[Kdawg954]

I'd take Oregon's offensive line over Clemson's weapons any day of the week. Best OL on football and still couldn't consistently take over a football game with his arm.

Not to mention he had three 4* WRs this year at his disposal.

Easy pass.

You would switch the Oregon OLine for the Clemson skill players.

Come on man, this is just a friendly debate, no need to go all Tropic Thunder on me.

 

[Kdawg954]

Herbert is bad when pressured. He went 12-2. This indicates that he's rarely pressured and that Oregon indeed has a distinct talent advantage over the other teams that they play.

Herbert is a front-running QB who isn't relied upon to win games for his team. Mahomes was that dude in college, but still lost because his defense was atrocious (5th best offense, dead last defense). I mean, Mahomes threw for 5,052 yards while Herbert was sitting at 3,471. That's a BIG volume difference and it's not like Herbert is a running threat. The guy averages 140 rushing yards per season.

It's not like Mahomes transformed when he got the NFL just like Herbert isn't going to transform. If you have a QB who can't overcome deficiencies and who can't play well in spite of them then he's precisely a Tannehill.

Don't ever compare them again, honestly.

I mean if you think me comparing one aspect of what they had some struggles with in college is me doing a player comparison, then I won’t continue debating with such millennial style reading comprehension. Sorry dude.

 

[Phinatic8u]

You would switch the Oregon OLine for the Clemson skill players.

Come on man, this is just a friendly debate, no need to go all Tropic Thunder on me.

I would yes. We all saw what happened in the national championship game. Those lanky WRs got abused in m2m coverage while the OL was not giving the qb time.

 

[NBP81]

He probably should of been lol. Chris and Flo needs to mute the “talked about” stuff and just get it right, even if there are folks that won’t like it or disagree with it.

Totally agree with this, I mean not doing their homework on every possible option would be irresponsible.

I feel like there are "Herbert" type QBs in every draft and you'd probably be able to get your hands on those guys anywhere in the 1st round. Tua types are much more rare IMO and he happens to be there at the same time the Fins have more assets than any other team in the last decade. Sure there's the injury, but if he's cleared, you take that shot everytime, the upside is so much bigger than the risk of simply walking out of the 1st round empty handed.

If he ends up busting, you can always take your shot at a Herbert in another draft, they're always there.

 

[Kamelion4291]

I mean if you think me comparing one aspect of what they had some struggles with in college is me doing a player comparison, then I won’t continue debating with such millennial style reading comprehension. Sorry dude.

I was just going along for the sake of argument because outside of the standard "every single QB in the history of the league eventually struggles against pressure" mantra, pressure wasn't any sort of "thing" for Mahomes in college and given that it was the basis for your comparison in ANY way between the two QBs, that is why I said don't compare them.

Also, Ok boomer.

 

[Rowdy1972]

Totally agree with this, I mean not doing their homework on every possible option would be irresponsible.

I feel like there are "Herbert" type QBs in every draft and you'd probably be able to get your hands on those guys anywhere in the 1st round. Tua types are much more rare IMO and he happens to be there at the same time the Fins have more assets than any other team in the last decade. Sure there's the injury, but if he's cleared, you take that shot everytime, the upside is so much bigger than the risk of simply walking out of the 1st round empty handed.

If he ends up busting, you can always take your shot at a Herbert in another draft, they're always there.

Precisely. There is always another Herbert. Hell you can probably get your Herbert in the second round this year by the way of Jake Fromm. Tua's dont come around very often which is why he is still gonna go top 5 after a rare injury. More likely top 3.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Totally agree with this, I mean not doing their homework on every possible option would be irresponsible.

I feel like there are "Herbert" type QBs in every draft and you'd probably be able to get your hands on those guys anywhere in the 1st round. Tua types are much more rare IMO and he happens to be there at the same time the Fins have more assets than any other team in the last decade. Sure there's the injury, but if he's cleared, you take that shot everytime, the upside is so much bigger than the risk of simply walking out of the 1st round empty handed.

If he ends up busting, you can always take your shot at a Herbert in another draft, they're always there.

Big prototypical QB with production below what it should be declares for the draft. News at 11.

 

[Manning]

I think Herbert has the potential to be a lot better than people think. He never played on a team with half the NFL level talent that LSU, Alabama, Ohio State or Clemson had this year (covering Burrow, Tua, Fields and Lawrence). Yet he was a successful starting QB at Oregon for 4 seasons. If anything the sheer amount of college tape on him will give teams that hope to draft him a clear idea how to best use his skill set. If Miami decides to draft him, and fully commits to build around him, I see no reason he could not be a solid starting QB.

No one is drafting Herbert on sheer college tape. It feels like ppl who want him have never seen him play. His tape is borderline bad (tape not stats)
He will be drafted high purely on size and arm strength and some mobility which is also overrated.

 

[MrChadRico]

Precisely. There is always another Herbert. Hell you can probably get your Herbert in the second round this year by the way of Jake Fromm. Tua's dont come around very often which is why he is still gonna go top 5 after a rare injury. More likely top 3.

You could even go as far as saying we already have a Herbert type. His name is Josh Rosen.

 

[Kdawg954]

I was just going along for the sake of argument because outside of the standard "every single QB in the history of the league eventually struggles against pressure" mantra, pressure wasn't any sort of "thing" for Mahomes in college and given that it was the basis for your comparison in ANY way between the two QBs, that is why I said don't compare them.

Also, Ok boomer.

Yea Im lost on the Boomer reference. We talking The QB from the Bengals? The former poster on here? Not sure tbh I take breaks in the offseason from Finheaven and I may of missed something.

And no you have some QBs that deal with the blitz very well. Deshaun Watson comes to mind. Folks wanted to knock him for being the prototypical black QB but ignored the things he excelled with. Intangibles, improvising, clutch gene, leadership, etc.

Again you took my one statement about Mahomes struggles against the blitz and used it as a full on player comparison to prove a point about your distaste for Herbert. That was your objective. Meanwhile I am trying to be impartial about the whole process and that annoys you clearly because I have watched plenty enough Herbert and I don’t hate him.

Oh well, that is why we debate.

 

[Kdawg954]

Totally agree with this, I mean not doing their homework on every possible option would be irresponsible.

I feel like there are "Herbert" type QBs in every draft and you'd probably be able to get your hands on those guys anywhere in the 1st round. Tua types are much more rare IMO and he happens to be there at the same time the Fins have more assets than any other team in the last decade. Sure there's the injury, but if he's cleared, you take that shot everytime, the upside is so much bigger than the risk of simply walking out of the 1st round empty handed.

If he ends up busting, you can always take your shot at a Herbert in another draft, they're always there.

Oh I agree with this fully. My love for Tua doesn’t equate hate for Herbert though. I think that is where I am at with it.

 

[SkapePhin]

Imagine both Tua and Herbert being on the clock.

“and the Miami Dolphins select... Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon.”

Would put the reaction to Ted Ginn pick to shame. You saw how that hung over Ginn’a Dolphin career like a cloud.

Unless Hebert has a mindset and mentality that we aren’t aware of, simply being drafted into that situation will set him up for failure.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Oh I agree with this fully. My love for Tua doesn’t equate hate for Herbert though. I think that is where I am at with it.

That's a sin for us Tuaites.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Yea Im lost on the Boomer reference. We talking The QB from the Bengals? The former poster on here? Not sure tbh I take breaks in the offseason from Finheaven and I may of missed something.

And no you have some QBs that deal with the blitz very well. Deshaun Watson comes to mind. Folks wanted to knock him for being the prototypical black QB but ignored the things he excelled with. Intangibles, improvising, clutch gene, leadership, etc.

Again you took my one statement about Mahomes struggles against the blitz and used it as a full on player comparison to prove a point about your distaste for Herbert. That was your objective. Meanwhile I am trying to be impartial about the whole process and that annoys you clearly because I have watched plenty enough Herbert and I don’t hate him.

Oh well, that is why we debate.

There's also a fundamental difference between dealing with pressure and dealing with a blitz, but I digress.

My issue with your statement had little to do with Herbert alone and more to do with choosing Mahomes as a comparison because your statement wasn't even true. Do you think someone throws for 5k+ yards, 40+ TDs, and 12 rushing TDs struggling against the blitz? Don't you think every single defense would just blitz him nonstop? How does he then get to 5,000+ yards?

So, again, gap in your logic there which is what I had a problem with.

As for Watson, some GMs are just ignorant. I was telling my friend who is a Browns fan all that offseason that they should take Watson because anybody who is good enough to thrash that Alabama defense twice in college is good enough to thrash teams in the NFL. Oh well.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Tua is one of my favorite prospects ever. I would love to roll the dice on him if we got the opportunity, despite the injury history.

But I don’t have tunnel vision either. We aren’t in a position to guarantee ourselves him and Miami rightfully needs to be looking at this QB class and see who can be a contender for manning the QB spot.

I find it hard to believe any scouting team could watch Herbert, both size and physical ability and not be a least a little intrigued. Again, its mid February. These guys get paid all year, let them work.

Ahhh, a man with a firm grasp of reality. I'll not enter the Tua/herbert debate, but I wish everyone wanting Burrow or tua would give their strategy if Miami DOESN'T get either. Would they rather Miami roll with Rosen, take Herbert or Love, os sign a FA? ANYTHING!! I expect some cop outs, like, 'they have the ammo to get the guy they want' as if every team would happily trade spots. Or, 'knowing Miami, they'll mess it up again.' May, may not. But Miami will have a strategy for every scenario. I'd like the strategy for 'if Miami gets neither.' Are all the other '20 QBs so bad, Miami should skip QB and build the trenches?

It seems at times, some are so obsessed with Tua, they feel giving any other QB credit is a danger to their obsession. Grier/Flo don't care. They have their own analysis/evaluation and don't need ours. Miami needs a better QB. No debate there. They should get the best available. Tua may not be available.