Minkah Fitzpatrick, Jerome Baker Give Miami D Long-term Promise. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Minkah Fitzpatrick, Jerome Baker Give Miami D Long-term Promise.

ANMoore said:
See I think I'm higher on baker than most. I think baker showed improvement at the LOA throughout the year and certainly showed promise compared to what most expected out of him coming out of college. I actually posted yesterday I like his prospects in a 3-4. But I won't argue where he stands now yes he fits a 4-3 better
Click to expand...


I think baker has potential to be a top 10 olb. I don’t think it’s mucb more than that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A1.
finomenal said:
Would hate to lose him, but oh well. Whatever it takes to get a franchise type prospect at QB.
Click to expand...


Put it to you this way if drake gets me from 13 to say 8 or even 10 for my all in qb if I’m Grier it’s a no brainer.

Done and done.
 
Digital said:
Baker can't play in a 34, he's too small and not nearly powerful enough at the point of attack to play the run well. He's purely a chase and cover LB when he learns the position. Until then, he's a very hit and miss chase and cover LB.

Xavien Howard is a press man CB, and any other use of him is a misuse. But, that press man system can work with any type of front really. Fitzpatrick has the versatility you mentioned. TJ McDonald could be moved to LB, and given the Chargers' success with 7 DB's lately, that idea should be gaining momentum, IMHO. Putting Fitzpatrick in the FS position to begin to master it, will make the most of his ability. It also frees up Reshad Jones to play his clearly best position, SS. Xavien Howard anchors one CB position, and if you find a CB2, you can slide McCain back into the slot where he belongs. IMHO, that's clearly the best lineup of our best players in our best unit. I would keep all of those guys in those positions.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but besides strength, it looks like he already has the skillset needed to play OLB in the 3-4. He can realistically put on 10 pounds of muscle by the time the regular season starts. He'll need to gain more than that, but it can be done. A lot of amazing things can be done with the modern methods they have access to (training, supplementation, recovery etc).
 
Digital said:
Baker can't play in a 34, he's too small and not nearly powerful enough at the point of attack to play the run well. He's purely a chase and cover LB when he learns the position. Until then, he's a very hit and miss chase and cover LB.

Xavien Howard is a press man CB, and any other use of him is a misuse. But, that press man system can work with any type of front really. Fitzpatrick has the versatility you mentioned. TJ McDonald could be moved to LB, and given the Chargers' success with 7 DB's lately, that idea should be gaining momentum, IMHO. Putting Fitzpatrick in the FS position to begin to master it, will make the most of his ability. It also frees up Reshad Jones to play his clearly best position, SS. Xavien Howard anchors one CB position, and if you find a CB2, you can slide McCain back into the slot where he belongs. IMHO, that's clearly the best lineup of our best players in our best unit. I would keep all of those guys in those positions.
Click to expand...
It’s nuts that a professional football team can’t figure this stuff out isn’t it? Nice post digital
 
Was rough on him last year, but the talent is there. Want to see what a better coaching staff can do with Raekwon.
 
Digital said:
So the stats on Baker on game day are more like 6'0 and 215 pounds. He is an SS playing OLB. He can cover, and he is legit turbo-fast. But he can't stack and shed like a traditional LB, so if he doesn't run to avoid the block, he is taken out of the play. Often he makes the wrong run fills and his gap discipline is poor, leading to many large gash chunk plays against us. He hasn't shown elite pass rush ability. I'm not seeing him as being big enough to play 34 OLB or ILB. I hope he refines his game, hits the books and studies a LOT more (Bake isn't known as a film grinder), and becomes a good 43 OLB. But I'm uneasy using him in a 34. Fortunately, there's a lot more likelihood of us playing 43 than 34 moving forward, and he's more of the new prototype LB who is extremely fast. He has potential, and he has value.

But he needs to continue improving, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Love this analysis. One of the bigger knocks on Baker was that he would get caught up in the wash on plays, and had problems shedding blocks. But I don’t see any reason he can’t play OLB in a 3-4.
 
Trading good great players that have made a NFL impact for draft picks makes very little sense unless its for a very special player like a QB.

The logic proves shallow when you look at a Harris or Tank in last years draft.

Furthermore we are in this exact dire position with a team with little talent today because we have been doing exactly that the past 15 to 20 years. Hiring this coach or that coach changing from a 3/4 to a 4/3 press corners to zone scheme. Another coach another excuse that he cannot use the last coaches players because they dont fit the scheme. Good players we drafted we let walk for mid to low round picks and others just walk.

Think back a few years ago at the end of the Ireland era that was the last time we really had accumulated picks in the draft. We used 2 picks on Howard 3 picks on Carroo. 5 picks 2 players!

We need a coach thar can coach up players and quit hiring the guys that blame the current players on the roster that they cannot be sucessful.
 
finomenal said:
I could be wrong but besides strength, it looks like he already has the skillset needed to play OLB in the 3-4. He can realistically put on 10 pounds of muscle by the time the regular season starts. He'll need to gain more than that, but it can be done. A lot of amazing things can be done with the modern methods they have access to (training, supplementation, recovery etc).
Click to expand...
Baker lacks the length and upper body strength to stack and shed in the run game, so he's always going to be a sieve in a 34 run defense. He also lacks the length and bend to be an effective edge rusher. So unless he is blitzing and getting a free shot at the QB, he's not going to be a great edge rusher in a 34 either. He's just not big enough (length, pounds, power) to play inside, nor is he big enough to play outside in a 34.

He is ideal speed/size for a 7 man DB setup (quarter not quarters) where hybrid S/LB players man the 2 "LB" positions like the Chargers ran so effectively at the end of this year. But that's a 4 man setup, where the DL occupy the OL and provide a pass rush and set the edge, allowing the LB's to fill. Thus why Bake is a good fit for a 43 and a bad fit for a 34. Sure, there are some 34's that look a lot like a 43 with one OLB essentially playing a stand-up DE, but that's about the only one where Bake could avoid being a liability and easily targeted in the run game.
 
Travis34 said:
It’s nuts that a professional football team can’t figure this stuff out isn’t it? Nice post digital
Click to expand...
Heh, yeah it is kinda nuts, but I think it's also a part of conflicting philosophies. The people acquiring the talent, like Grier, want a new age LB rather than a player who only fits this one year DC's system, so they drafted Jerome Baker because he was fast and came highly recommended by his Ohio State teammates. Then Burke, a LB coach at heart, wants to run a different style defense, where Baker is asked to be a traditional 43 OLB, and the kid doesn't study his playbook very hard, and continually makes rookie mistakes. Sure, eventually he'll fit in, but Burke will be gone by the time he develops. So, Burke would have preferred a plug and play LB, but Grier is being graded on the player's career, not his immediate production.

Grier drafted for the press man system that VJ put in, and that's why we traded up to get Xavien Howard. Lots of people criticized that decision, but I had been singing the kids praise since well before we drafted him, and I defended him for the first year and a half until the light came on for him.

Like Laremy Tunsil, these young players have inconsistent early careers, so the snapshot after 1 year isn't always accurate. Look at how promising Cordrea Tankersley was as a rookie, then when he got lazy and then lost confidence as a sophomore, he flat out sucked. He lost his technique and killer instinct. But, its possible he re-dedicates himself this offseason and makes another leap forward in 2019 … I think he's definitely worth a shot.

We saw the big shakeup this offseason and all the power was consolidated into Chris Grier. This is his show now. He picks his coach and he's responsible for getting them talent that works with their systems. If we fail … Grier is the first person to get fired. Luckily, I think we're on a year or two down cycle while we troll the 2020 (and maybe 2021) draft for a franchise QB. So sucking will be tolerated for a year or two. But if we suck after 3 years, I'm guessing Grier and this entire coaching staff is let go.
 
hoops said:
Put it to you this way if drake gets me from 13 to say 8 or even 10 for my all in qb if I’m Grier it’s a no brainer.

Done and done.
Click to expand...

Drake wouldn't be enough to move up one spot in that range. That's the bottom line reality. It would be true even if the target is not a quarterback. Lots of coveted defensive stars this year. But when they know you want to move up to grab a quarterback then someone like Drake would be considered a glorified throw in. You have to pay up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom