Most misleading combine performances...

[fishfanmiami]

Gentlemen


Some excellent posts in the thread but also some BS taking shots at other posters
I deleted those posts and if that starts up again further action will be taken

Don't reply. You all know the rules

Attack the post not the poster

 

[rickd13]

That will happen when you do a full blown franchise reset.

IMO, it waa the right way to go.

Were you not on board with the rebuild? Serious question, I don't recall your specific position.

Absolutely I was on board. It probably should have happened a long time ago. My problem is that the guy (Grier) who is a big part of the reason the franchise is in the state it's in and can't find elite players in the first place is still in charge of rebuilding the roster. That's why I'm all in for taking a shot at Tua and trying to hit a homerun at the QB position because I don't believe no matter how many quality draft assets Grier is given, he will never be able to build a team like the 49ers so I'm hoping for a miracle at the QB position to bail his a** out.

 

[Mach2]

Absolutely I was on board. It probably should have happened a long time ago. My problem is that the guy (Grier) who is a big part of the reason the franchise is in the state it's in and can't find elite players in the first place is still in charge of rebuilding the roster. That's why I'm all in for taking a shot at Tua and trying to hit a homerun at the QB position because I don't believe no matter how many quality draft assets Grier is given, he will never be able to build a team like the 49ers so I'm hoping for a miracle at the QB position to bail his a** out.

Understand.

The way I see that, though, if Grier blows the next two years picks and cap space, it won't matter who the QB is. No one guy, even a QB, can carry a talentless team to legitimate championship contention. He can make up for a lot, assuming great coaching/game planning, but that only goes so far.

Your very reasoning is why I don't want to give up a load of top picks.

If we miss on a couple, we still have more chances.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

The problem is, that that's all Miami's roster is littered with. Average players. It's fine to have some average players if you actually have a roster with some elite players. Miami doesn't have any.

First, a digression. Apparently, I have a very strict definition of 'elite.' Some, IMO, have a very generous definition. For that reason, I'll compromise and use All-Pro.

All average and above teams are loaded with 'average' players. Very few All-Pros, on average. You're right, Miami has none per '19.
I expect that to change starting this coming season. In the meantime, focus on upgrading the bottom tier guys

 

[Mach2]

First, a digression. Apparently, I have a very strict definition of 'elite.' Some, IMO, have a very generous definition. For that reason, I'll compromise and use All-Pro.

All average and above teams are loaded with 'average' players. Very few All-Pros, on average. You're right, Miami has none per '19.
I expect that to change starting this coming season. In the meantime, focus on upgrading the bottom tier guys

Interesting.....

What guys are you projecting to make that jump?

My first thought was Parker.
Maybe a 50/50 shot with X.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Interesting.....

What guys are you projecting to make that jump?

My first thought was Parker.
Maybe a 50/50 shot with X.

I wouldn't limit myself to guys on the roster, although DVP, Williams, X wouldn't surprise me. I have no idea who Flo will bring in, but 1-2 of those wouldn't surprise me either. Not predicting any of that, only that I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Mach2]

I wouldn't limit myself to guys on the roster, although DVP, Williams, X wouldn't surprise me. I have no idea who Flo will bring in, but 1-2 of those wouldn't surprise me either. Not predicting any of that, only that I wouldn't be surprised.

You are just full of "interesting" today brother.

When you say "who Flo will bring in", are you implying a paradigm shift, where we have a HC who is the driving force behind player aquisitions, rather than the GM?

I ask, because I get the impression that is the case. I hope it is.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

You are just full of "interesting" today brother.

When you say "who Flo will bring in", are you implying a paradigm shift, where we have a HC who is the driving force behind player aquisitions, rather than the GM?

I ask, because I get the impression that is the case. I hope it is.

We may be a minority. Some seem to imply Grier goes into a sealed fault on draft day, formulates his board, and executes draft picks with no input from scouts, coaches, or data. That fiction needs to die a merciless death. Grier and staff are far more influential than Grier. Unimaginably complex data goes into the decisions. There is a consensus here players (correctly) must fit what Flo and staff want. How much that changes the board, I have no idea. Fans go by college tape and combine numbers, but there is far more data. End of digression.

No sentient GM is going to pick a LB with the 1st pick when the coaches want a QB. That's a quick way to be unemployed. Thus, FLo and staff will decide which FAs they want and a range they think the FA is worth. Flo and staff will have significant say in draft picks. That's the reality.

Given all that, yeah, Flo will be the driving force. He's shown talent at coaching up players many here thought were JAGs. I expect that to continue. Gesicki is just one of those. That and improved talent evaluation is why I think Miami will reduce bottom tier players, increase the number of average players, and, I hope, start getting Miami represented in All Pro selections.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Understand.

The way I see that, though, if Grier blows the next two years picks and cap space, it won't matter who the QB is. No one guy, even a QB, can carry a talentless team to legitimate championship contention. He can make up for a lot, assuming great coaching/game planning, but that only goes so far.

Your very reasoning is why I don't want to give up a load of top picks.

If we miss on a couple, we still have more chances.

The crux of the matter is the thinking that all picks and therefore chances are equal.

In a make believe scenario, if you trade 3 picks for a 50% chance that a QB turns out to be great, but individually those picks are 15%/15%/12%, it's still the correct play and worth it overall.

 

[Mach2]

The crux of the matter is the thinking that all picks and therefore chances are equal.

In a make believe scenario, if you trade 3 picks for a 50% chance that a QB turns out to be great, but individually those picks are 15%/15%/12%, it's still the correct play and worth it overall.

I think 15%/15%/12% is very low for high non-QB draft picks. 50% for a top QB prospect may be as well.

@NBP81 probably has fairly accurate statistics on that.

At any rate, at some point the number of picks given up, statistically anyway, outweigh the value of the single player. I really don't believe it can be clearly quantified by statistics alone, there are way too many variables involved, and it ultimately comes down to how wisely the picks are used, and whether the individual players meet the "picker's" expectations.

 

[rickd13]

Understand.

The way I see that, though, if Grier blows the next two years picks and cap space, it won't matter who the QB is. No one guy, even a QB, can carry a talentless team to legitimate championship contention. He can make up for a lot, assuming great coaching/game planning, but that only goes so far.

Your very reasoning is why I don't want to give up a load of top picks.

If we miss on a couple, we still have more chances.

That's why I feel just the opposite. If he can hit on the QB at least the QB will be in place long after he gets fired. Find me the most important piece and then figure out the rest.

 

[NBP81]

I think 15%/15%/12% is very low for high non-QB draft picks. 50% for a top QB prospect may be as well.

@NBP81 probably has fairly accurate statistics on that.

At any rate, at some point the number of picks given up, statistically anyway, outweigh the value of the single player. I really don't believe it can be clearly quantified by statistics alone, there are way too many variables involved, and it ultimately comes down to how wisely the picks are used, and whether the individual players meet the "picker's" expectations.

You can filter by clicking on different pos groups in the ledgend...
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marc.kevin.quintin#!/vizhome/NFLdraftsuccessanalysis/Dashboard

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

He improved, but he still has a lot of work to do. Why do people get all emotional about average players on a bad team?

Yeah. Go figure? Same average players on the same bad team beat the greatest team of all time, with the GOAT at QB, in their house, with a critical bye on the line and . . . I'm serious here, Gesieki of all people, catches the game winning TD!! Who'd have thunk it? I mean, really? :wacky

 

[NY8123]

Vince Young and in 2020 Tua (since no matter what he does or doesn't do it will be misconstrued as positive).

 

[Phinatic8u]

Yeah. Go figure? Same average players on the same bad team beat the greatest team of all time, with the GOAT at QB, in their house, with a critical bye on the line and . . . I'm serious here, Gesieki of all people, catches the game winning TD!! Who'd have thunk it? I mean, really? :wacky

What does any of this have to do with anything I said?