My thoughts on the Joel Collier hiring....

[jmp310]

Originally posted by ohall


Obviously no matter what I say you are going to latch onto the negatives. Sorry I get there sometimes, but it's not where I live.

If there is a better option out there, I'm all for that. The problem with that is, there has not been a better option. So I don't see your point wahtsoever.

Oliver...

Plenty of better options....

Joe Gibbs, Dennis Green, Jim Fassel, and Tom Coughlin all took their team farther in the playoffs than Wannstedt. And all four of them could and would have easily gone 10-6 or better with this team. And all four would have brought much more disipline than Wannstedt. Plus, there was the intriguing option of Nick Saban, who said he would have considered going to the NFL if there was a good fit for him. Sources claimed he liked the Dolphins job.

As for GM, I'm not bashing Speilman, but Randy Mueller had a good track record and much more experience.

And for OC, Fassel was a much better option, and should have been OFFERED the job. If not him, Tressman has been succesful as an OC, and so has Dave McGinnis. I'm not arguing that Collier shouldn't be given a chance cause he has no experience, but why should we take a chance on Collier when there are guys with experience who have been SUCCESFUL???

I'm still waiting for someone to answer that question. And quit bashing me and missed FG for being negative, this is an objective message board. If you don't like it, then start a positive only board. Otherwise, we have the right to make negative points if they are fair.

 

[ohall]

Originally posted by jmp310


Plenty of better options....

Joe Gibbs, Dennis Green, Jim Fassel, and Tom Coughlin all took their team farther in the playoffs than Wannstedt. And all four of them could and would have easily gone 10-6 or better with this team. And all four would have brought much more disipline than Wannstedt. Plus, there was the intriguing option of Nick Saban, who said he would have considered going to the NFL if there was a good fit for him. Sources claimed he liked the Dolphins job.

I don't agree with any of that other than Gibbs. I wouldn't want any of those ex-HC's. It's basically swapping out for what we have right now, except we'd have to wait for everyone to get up to speed with a new HC.

Saban wasn't going any where.

None of those guys are better HC's than Wanny.

Discipline? Sorry man, I have no idea what you are talking about there. I have yet to hear word one about him having discipline problems with this team.

Oliver...

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by Fisticuff


*someone who gets it*

exactly...

he's not going to hire some doof to be OC, when his job is cleary on the line. why do you take him to be a moron?

Are you saying that bad decisions are never made???

Chan Gailey picked Kippy Brown as his OC and that did'nt exactly work out did it?

Please, just because Dave is head coach dosen't mean all of his decisions are gold. We're already getting the "don't question anything the Fins do because they know better" crowd going already.

I'm not going to make a decision on whether I think the Collier decision was good or not right now because I just don't know.

I do know that Dave... based on decisions he's made in his tenure deserves a doubtful eye placed on him. That's why he's on the hot seat is it not? That's why Marino was brought in to see how much of the problem Dave is or isn't. To see if Dave's philosophy of coaching and game planning is average, good or great. Everything Dave does in his job is now in question.

If Dave's strategic philosophy of game planning is in question should'nt the hiring of an OC that more than likely would have been picked to match HIS philosophy and strategy be looked on with a bit of skepticism??? Add that to the fact that we are supposed to be focusing on our passing attack yet a RB coach has been made OC.

Does all this mean Collier won't do a good job? No.
The situation does deserve a doubtful eye cast it's way however so stop busting the chops of everyone asking pertinent questions about the situation.

 

[Ross]

"there's no reason that he should solely be in charge of hiring the OC, when he is on the hot seat himself,"

Do we understand what it takes to be a leader of men? Do we understand that the head coach can't have one guy on his staff or player that is not answerable to him? Do we understand how that can fracture a team?

--Ross

 

[PhinstiGator]

Originally posted by PhinsmissedFG
...Was Turner getting it done? Somewhat yes...

Joe Collier's response....

"Did we get things done that we should have gotten done last year? No. We’ve got to improve in a lot of areas. Even prior to this whole process with Norv, we were thinking of people on this staff and additions on this staff that were going to bring something to the passing game. Marc’s an excellent example of it, and Jerry is obviously another excellent example, in conjunction with trying to improve this situation. There’s going to be pressure, no doubt about it. But I think we’re trying to address it the right wayâ€Â

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by jmp310


Plenty of better options....

Joe Gibbs, Dennis Green, Jim Fassel, and Tom Coughlin all took their team farther in the playoffs than Wannstedt. And all four of them could and would have easily gone 10-6 or better with this team. And all four would have brought much more disipline than Wannstedt. Plus, there was the intriguing option of Nick Saban, who said he would have considered going to the NFL if there was a good fit for him. Sources claimed he liked the Dolphins job.

As for GM, I'm not bashing Speilman, but Randy Mueller had a good track record and much more experience.

And for OC, Fassel was a much better option, and should have been OFFERED the job. If not him, Tressman has been succesful as an OC, and so has Dave McGinnis. I'm not arguing that Collier shouldn't be given a chance cause he has no experience, but why should we take a chance on Collier when there are guys with experience who have been SUCCESFUL???

I'm still waiting for someone to answer that question. And quit bashing me and missed FG for being negative, this is an objective message board. If you don't like it, then start a positive only board. Otherwise, we have the right to make negative points if they are fair.

Welcome to the Finheaven boards buddy!
You will soon learn that there are many posters on here that cannot take objective discussion. It's pretty comical actually.

 

[NavyFishFan]

Its not a matter of objectivity with me per se. My main point on this subject is how many times have other HCs/organizations hired a proven guy just for it not to work out? There's no guarantees.

Look at JJ, Wanny and Norv.

 

[ohall]

Originally posted by Trekbiz


Welcome to the Finheaven boards buddy!
You will soon learn that there are many posters on here that cannot take objective discussion. It's pretty comical actually.

It's the other way around. Some can't stand ppl who are optimistic.

Oliver...

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by PhinsmissedFG
I guess my points are just dimissed as whining and wanting to gripe about something. Certainly someone can see what I was saying. It's very difficult to count on players w/o experience as well as coaches w/o experience.

I called for younger players to play because the other players weren't getting it done. Was Turner getting it done? Somewhat yes. But he's gone now. My main question is this, was Collier the BEST hire out there?

Something tells me no, not with his resume. I believe people with resumes that far exceed Colliers are available, even in house with Trestman. Slam all you want, but when you do please bring a valid point besides calling me a whiner.

I agree it is a concern.

We'll have to wait and see though.
One thing for sure is that Collier has the opportunity to make his future very bright if he succeeds. Let's hope number one that he has what it takes and number two that Dave W. lets him do his job.

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by ohall


It's the other way around. Some can't stand ppl who are optimistic.

Oliver...

Well, I don't agree with you there.
I am optimistic that Collier can get it done.
I have to be.
To point out the fact that the "Win now" Fins organization just put it's entire offense into the hands of an unknown commodity is not being negative, it's facing facts.

You can be optimistic while also looking objectively at both sides of a situation.

 

[ohall]

Originally posted by Trekbiz


Well, I don't agree with you there.
I am optimistic that Collier can get it done.
I have to be.
Ignore the fact that the "Win now" organization just put it's entire offense into the hands of an unknown commodity is not being negative, it's facing facts.

You can be optimistic while also looking objectively at both sides of a situation.

That's GREAT, then we agree. Collier is a ?mark, but I'm not making my hobby the Miami Dolphins a negative experience. I'd rather see the positives.

Not sure how you handle your hobby, but that's where I'm coming from.

Oliver...

 

[MDFINFAN]

This thread is funny, people complained about Norv's calls last year, you complaint about the OL, the WR, the QB...Now the whole O staff is changed and the emphasis is bring in FA's and drafting O people. We already have a different O before they even go thru FA and the draft, mini camps should be interesting this year. As much as Collier has watched Ricky run and what Defenses try to do to him, I think he's in perfect position to run our O. Now can we get the personnel to help him succeed is the question.

 

[Coral Reefer]

Has anyone listened to WQAM or any of the TV sportscasters who have given any input on Collier and how well he is suited or not suited to be successful?

I'd really like to hear input from some of these guys.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Question is, who will Norv hire as his OC?

 

[jmp310]

Originally posted by Trekbiz


Welcome to the Finheaven boards buddy!
You will soon learn that there are many posters on here that cannot take objective discussion. It's pretty comical actually.

Haha, thanks. Don't worry, it seems to be the common sentiment that the majority of fans seem to be extremely critical during the season, yet during the off-season, believe the 'Fins are going to the Super Bowl. I've been an optimistic fan at times, even this year after the Dallas game for example, but after years of suffering, I realize certain things, like the Dolphins wont go the Super Bowl if Jay Fiedler is their QB, or if they don't have football guys in the front office, which the team doesn't seem to realize as quickly. I haven't officially given up on the prospects of getting to a SB with Wannstedt, but I think he's a below average coach who has failed on many levels.
I just get upset with people who believe this BS that "we're really close" because it's the same thing every year, which means clearly they aren't very close.