Notes from Mel Kiper Chat on ESPN.com

[thepoolboy]

Yeah Elway got his ring though after Denver got a running game, and Marino never got his. A WR can be in the hall of fame, and not have much of a QB so?

Read what my comment was in response to...your assertion that the running game is vital to the success of the passing game.

 

[thepoolboy]

and alex smith was rated as a low first rounder to 2nd rounder in december when everyone thought lienhart was coming out... not until matt decided not to come out did smith get more and more attention and climb up the board...

I don't think Alex Smith was even rated. He wasn't even on the fence until after the Fiesta Bowl.

 

[PhinBeck]

The ball could have been caught...should've been is another story.

When was I every basing an argument on where WRs were taken? It was strictly QB vs. RB.

If it is your opinion that the qbs are that good, fine. But you are in minority with the experst who say that there arent any franchise qbs in this draft.

As far as the pass to carter. he had to tun slightly, was not overextended, did not have to jump or dive. It is a catch he even said he should have had.

 

[thepoolboy]

As far as the NE game, yes jay played bad teh last drive. No debate. But he put up 24 points, should have been good enough for the #3 defense. 11 point lead with less than 5 minutes should be plenty with a super bowl defense. Plus we had teh top rusher where was he? run the ball force NE to use timeouts, they run out of time.

Ricky's 180 plus yards had nothing to do with the 24 points on the board?

Anyways, all other performances aside, we threw three straight plays to get a first down and seal the game. FeeFee was unable to come through.

 

[NorthFinFan85]

Read what my comment was in response to...your assertion that the running game is vital to the success of the passing game.

So RBs are not vital to the passing game?

 

[thepoolboy]

If it is your opinion that the qbs are that good, fine. But you are in minority with the experst who say that there arent any franchise qbs in this draft.

As far as the pass to carter. he had to tun slightly, was not overextended, did not have to jump or dive. It is a catch he even said he should have had.

Of course he's going to say he should have made the catch. What would you have said? It was a bad throw? He was falling to the left and the ball was thrown to the right. If FeeFee would have made an NFL caliber throw from less than 10 yards, we would not be having this debate.

 

[PhinBeck]

Ricky's 180 plus yards had nothing to do with the 24 points on the board?

Anyways, all other performances aside, we threw three straight plays to get a first down and seal the game. FeeFee was unable to come through.

Comeon dude you gotta do better.

Yep Ricky 180 yds did have alot to do with it, so did Jays 35 yd td pass and his block to spring Ricky for a td. So did his cluctch passes early. So where was Ricky the last drive when we needed to keep teh clock moving? Jay did play bad teh last drive, but that is not what cost us teh game. Jay had a chance to seal the win, he failed, a 12 yd punt set them up in great field position and the defense giving up a bomb and getting a pass interference call did more than Jay to lose that game. Wanny infinite stupidity was also huge. We called three straight passes the last drive, NO TIMEOUTS USED BY NE, That was stupid. Jay didnt win us teh game, but he didnt lose it.

 

[arsenal]

I don't think Alex Smith was even rated. He wasn't even on the fence until after the Fiesta Bowl.

thats the worst part... how a player gets more praise out of the pads and off the field than when hes on it...

 

[thepoolboy]

So RBs are not vital to the passing game?

No they are not - they make passing the ball easier as their presence makes play-action much more believable; however, a quality passing game is more beneficial for the running game as it keeps the safety out of the box.

 

[PhinBeck]

Of course he's going to say he should have made the catch. What would you have said? It was a bad throw? He was falling to the left and the ball was thrown to the right. If FeeFee would have made an NFL caliber throw from less than 10 yards, we would not be having this debate.

LOL dude you are not making anyt sense, debate the isue with facts or stop. The ball was in his hands, BOTH hands without him having to extend. The ball was where it had to be. Was it absolutely perfect? NO was it a ball that should hav been caught? you bet. It was NOT a bad throw. Man you are reaching dude, you arent right stop forcing it to be right. square peg, round hole, sound familiar? thats your argument.

 

[thepoolboy]

Comeon dude you gotta do better.

Yep Ricky 180 yds did have alot to do with it, so did Jays 35 yd td pass and his block to spring Ricky for a td. So did his cluctch passes early. So where was Ricky the last drive when we needed to keep teh clock moving? Jay did play bad teh last drive, but that is not what cost us teh game. Jay had a chance to seal the win, he failed, a 12 yd punt set them up in great field position and the defense giving up a bomb and getting a pass interference call did more than Jay to lose that game. Wanny infinite stupidity was also huge. We called three straight passes the last drive, NO TIMEOUTS USED BY NE, That was stupid. Jay didnt win us teh game, but he didnt lose it.

I never said he lost it - my point was that he had a chance to win it for us and failed. A top QB would have converted the first and sealed the game.

 

[PhinBeck]

No they are not - they make passing the ball easier as their presence makes play-action much more believable; however, a quality passing game is more beneficial for the running game as it keeps the safety out of the box.

You are clueless. Both make the other effective. Qbs keep safeties out of teh box? Ok rbs keep defenses out of nickel and dimes. Remember thoise defenses Dan faced every play and what SF did against him in teh bowl as well as Elway?

 

[thepoolboy]

LOL dude you are not making anyt sense, debate the isue with facts or stop. The ball was in his hands, BOTH hands without him having to extend. The ball was where it had to be. Was it absolutely perfect? NO was it a ball that should hav been caught? you bet. It was NOT a bad throw. Man you are reaching dude, you arent right stop forcing it to be right. square peg, round hole, sound familiar? thats your argument.

I hope you're not a JayBot because that was anything but a good throw. The facts were laid out as noted in my previous post. I felt Carter could have had the ball - but if all your momentum is going to the left and the QB throws it to the right, what are the chances of success? They are much less than if he threw it accurately in the direction the receiver was leaning.

 

[NorthFinFan85]

No they are not - they make passing the ball easier as their presence makes play-action much more believable; however, a quality passing game is more beneficial for the running game as it keeps the safety out of the box.

Man come on, how can you say you know which is more beneficial? It works both ways, a safety out of the box helps the running game via threat in passing, but a safety in the box helps out the passing game via run threat. You can't under-rate the coverage that is lost when a team is trying to stop the run. They work hand in hand...

 

[PhinBeck]

I never said he lost it - my point was that he had a chance to win it for us and failed. A top QB would have converted the first and sealed the game.

It is poosible a better qb would have completed that first pass. Still was bad playcalling on Wannys part not to swing ricky on a sweep in the face of teh blitz. Or how about a draw?

Like I said Jay had a chance to seal it, but jay wasnt the reason we missed the playoffs. The way teh defense played the last 3 games we woulnt have done sh*t. In the Minn game if it werent for Culpepper having the dropsies, we would have been blown out.