Notes from Mel Kiper Chat on ESPN.com

[VanDolPhan]

How is Alex Smith overrated? He has done nothing but dominate the last two years. The only tangible quality he lacks is a David Carr-esque arm. His intangible qualities are undisputed.

What have you seen in Alex Smith that convinces you he is not a potential franchise player? Do you recall the game or situation?

You seriously aren't going to sit here and say any of these 2 would have been rated higher then Eli/Rivers and Rothlisberger now are you? The only reason these boys are rated that highly is simply due to the weak draft class. No elite LT prospects, A WR who hasn't played last year in the top 10, Qb's that most experts rate only high due to the fact QB's are overvalued in the draft. A CB with serious questions about his speed and recovery speed.

Sit and watch on draft day pool cause it's going to be a long day as you watch the 3 Rb's come off the board in the top 10. And I honestly feel sorry for the teams that take these QB's in the top 5. They don't have the draft grades on them that Rothlisberger or Eli commanded last year.

 

[VanDolPhan]

Many draft experst say it is a weak draft at the top. not weak overall. the rbs are considered teh cream of the crop this year.

I didn't mean to insuniate a weak draft overall. Just the top 15 or so. It really is a crap shoot. Last year Ben fell all the way to twelve. I can see that happening here again. All these mock drafts are just copying each other and it's going to be a real surprise as they roll off the board. The only picks I feel safe with at the #2 spot is Brown.

The real interesting spot is Cleveland. They are in dire need of QB play. If they pass that should tell a lot of people something. Although not like Phil Savage's crew have ever been good at drafting Qb's.

 

[thepoolboy]

FeeFee did hit Carter in teh endzone, Carter dropped it so there again your Facts are wrong. Maybe if teh defense could have made one third down stop when needed we would have one that game.

What are you talking about? Yeah FeeFee hit Carter...off his outside right shoulder when he was falling to his left. Flat-out, it was a dreadful pass from close range. Man, you need to get your facts straight.

As for NE...the defense didn't make the stop but FeeFee had the ball and all he had to do was convert one first down. If the ball was in Brady's hands, would have confidence the outcome would have been the same?

 

[NorthFinFan85]

Yes it is a big drop. Why? Because of the signing bonuses that are committed to the top picks. Besides, if trends are to be broken, do you honestly believe a league that clearly emphasises the pass even more now than it has in the past will suddenly value a position (which is not necessary for same) it has devalued in the past? Not likely.

History...history, it tells us everything thats where all of your arguments seems to be centered around. The passing game may be more emphasized, but a RB is just as important to that as a QB or WR. If you have no threat in the running game what do you think it does to your passing game?

 

[thepoolboy]

You seriously aren't going to sit here and say any of these 2 would have been rated higher then Eli/Rivers and Rothlisberger now are you? The only reason these boys are rated that highly is simply due to the weak draft class. No elite LT prospects, A WR who hasn't played last year in the top 10, Qb's that most experts rate only high due to the fact QB's are overvalued in the draft. A CB with serious questions about his speed and recovery speed.

Sit and watch on draft day pool cause it's going to be a long day as you watch the 3 Rb's come off the board in the top 10. And I honestly feel sorry for the teams that take these QB's in the top 5. They don't have the draft grades on them that Rothlisberger or Eli commanded last year.

So you are admitting you haven't seen Smith play? If so, then how can you have an opinion?

As for last year, Rivers was never a top prospect, he was overvalued as necessary to complete the trade with SD. He wasn't even a first round prospect until he lit it up at the Senior Bowl. Manning was always at the top, but I don't see much he can do that Smith can't. Roethlisberger is a player that should have gone higher than he did.

However, I have seen all these players play, so I can at least make a reasonable assessment. It amazes me that so many of you guys devalue these QBs when many of you openly admit you haven't seen them play.

 

[thepoolboy]

History...history, it tells us everything thats where all of your arguments seems to be centered around. The passing game may be more emphasized, but a RB is just as important to that as a QB or WR. If you have no threat in the running game what do you think it does to your passing game?

Marino and Elway did alright for most of their careers without a running game.

 

[PhinBeck]

I didn't mean to insuniate a weak draft overall. Just the top 15 or so. It really is a crap shoot. Last year Ben fell all the way to twelve. I can see that happening here again. All these mock drafts are just copying each other and it's going to be a real surprise as they roll off the board. The only picks I feel safe with at the #2 spot is Brown.

Not addressing you poolboy. It is a weak draft at the top. as in franchise players. The only ones are the backs. Edwards is creeping up as a franchise receiver, but receivers are less of top end position than backs.

 

[VanDolPhan]

So you are admitting you haven't seen Smith play? If so, then how can you have an opinion?

As for last year, Rivers was never a top prospect, he was overvalued as necessary to complete the trade with SD. He wasn't even a first round prospect until he lit it up at the Senior Bowl. Manning was always at the top, but I don't see much he can do that Smith can't. Roethlisberger is a player that should have gone higher than he did.

However, I have seen all these players play, so I can at least make a reasonable assessment. It amazes me that so many of you guys devalue these QBs when many of you openly admit you haven't seen them play.

Where did I say I haven't? You are so full of crap putting words in peoples mouths. Look back over your posts buddy you've skipped over so many arguments that quite frankly at this point I think your just arguing for the sake of stirring the pot. Done with this thread when someone can't realize the bloody obvious about the QB's in this draft or how weak this draft is period.

 

[NorthFinFan85]

Marino and Elway did alright for most of their careers without a running game.

Yeah Elway got his ring though after Denver got a running game, and Marino never got his. A WR can be in the hall of fame, and not have much of a QB so?

 

[arsenal]

So you are admitting you haven't seen Smith play? If so, then how can you have an opinion?

As for last year, Rivers was never a top prospect, he was overvalued as necessary to complete the trade with SD. He wasn't even a first round prospect until he lit it up at the Senior Bowl. Manning was always at the top, but I don't see much he can do that Smith can't. Roethlisberger is a player that should have gone higher than he did.

and alex smith was rated as a low first rounder to 2nd rounder in december when everyone thought lienhart was coming out... not until matt decided not to come out did smith get more and more attention and climb up the board...

 

[PhinBeck]

What are you talking about? Yeah FeeFee hit Carter...off his outside right shoulder when he was falling to his left. Flat-out, it was a dreadful pass from close range. Man, you need to get your facts straight.

As for NE...the defense didn't make the stop but FeeFee had the ball and all he had to do was convert one first down. If the ball was in Brady's hands, would have confidence the outcome would have been the same?

I got my facts straight it you that dont and havent yet.

He threw it where it had to be, opposite the defender. It was in Carters hands, should have been caught. 2 possesions in teh second half 10 points. No way qb cost us that game. SO YOU get your facts straight. By teh way here is another fact for you.


since 90 here are the top wrs taken (only top ten)

90
none second rd highest (alexander wright)

91
10 - Herman Moore

92
4th D howard

93
7th Conway

94
no top ten 17th - C Johnson

95
4 westbrook
8 galloway
10 stokes

96
1 K Johnson

97
7 hilliard

98
no top ten

99
6 holt
8 boston

2000
4 warrick
8 burress

2001
8 Terrell
9 Robinson

2002
no top ten

2003
2 rogers
3 johnson

2004
3 fitz
7 Roy Williams
9 Reggie Williams

So there is your answer to rb in top 5 vs wr. Fitz and Roy williams are studs but look elswehere for your answer.

 

[thepoolboy]

Where did I say I haven't? You are so full of crap putting words in peoples mouths. Look back over your posts buddy you've skipped over so many arguments that quite frankly at this point I think your just arguing for the sake of stirring the pot. Done with this thread when someone can't realize the bloody obvious about the QB's in this draft or how weak this draft is period.

If I'm the one that's arguing for the sake of arguing, then why have you not answered the simple question? Have you seen Alex Smith play? Simple...answer it. If you have, then what have you seen that you didn't like? Do you recall the game or situation?

Like I said, if you have not seen him, then you're argument is baseless.

 

[PhinBeck]

As far as the NE game, yes jay played bad teh last drive. No debate. But he put up 24 points, should have been good enough for the #3 defense. 11 point lead with less than 5 minutes should be plenty with a super bowl defense. Plus we had teh top rusher where was he? run the ball force NE to use timeouts, they run out of time.

 

[PhinBeck]

If I'm the one that's arguing for the sake of arguing, then why have you not answered the simple question? Have you seen Alex Smith play? Simple...answer it. If you have, then what have you seen that you didn't like? Do you recall the game or situation?

Like I said, if you have not seen him, then you're argument is baseless.

Just like just about everything you have said.

 

[thepoolboy]

I got my facts straight it you that dont and havent yet.

He threw it where it had to be, opposite the defender. It was in Carters hands, should have been caught. 2 possesions in teh second half 10 points. No way qb cost us that game. SO YOU get your facts straight. By teh way here is another fact for you.

The ball could have been caught...should've been is another story.

When was I every basing an argument on where WRs were taken? It was strictly QB vs. RB.