Notes from Mel Kiper Chat on ESPN.com

[thepoolboy]

We missed the playoffs in 2002 cause Wanny was an inept coach and Ray Lucas was so horrible at QB. I can't imagine Feely or Frerotte being that bad. We were a winning team in 2002, and Ricky's performance alone allowed the offense to win us games. The fact that you use draft postition to argue for a QB is ridiculous. There have been a goode number of QB busts in recent years (Smith, Couch, Leaf, possibly Harrington) that have been drafted high. Neither of these Qb's are a Peyton Manning, so why reach? RB is such a huge need and these guys all have the potential to be great.

Did you not read the post that you quoted...no RBs have gone in the top 3 since 1996. Do you think that is a coincidence? A QB failing to perform in the NFL is irrelevent as it relates to draft day value. There are as many QB busts as there are RB busts, yet the fact a QB busts does not stop teams from taking QBs at the top. Teams do not take RBs at the top - Do you think Saban is about to change that?

As for 2002 - QB play cost us the playoffs. If FeeFee hit Carter in the endzone vs. Minny or if he gained one first down vs NE during the final game, we're in the playoffs and likely with a first round bye. There is no disputing the value of the QB position.

 

[thepoolboy]

This is the first year that I can remember in over a decade where the top 5 was in such large doubt.

The top five this year is no more distorted than in 1997, 2001 and 2002.

 

[TXFinFan]

Did you not read the post that you quoted...no RBs have gone in the top 3 since 1996. Do you think that is a coincidence? A QB failing to perform in the NFL is irrelevent as it relates to draft day value. There are as many QB busts as there are RB busts, yet the fact a QB busts does not stop teams from taking QBs at the top. Teams do not take RBs at the top - Do you think Saban is about to change that?

As for 2002 - QB play cost us the playoffs. If FeeFee hit Carter in the endzone vs. Minny or if he gained one first down vs NE during the final game, we're in the playoffs and likely with a first round bye. There is no disputing the value of the QB position.

Then why didn't John Elway win a Super Bowl until he got himself a good RB? And why do Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have Super Bowl rings?

 

[VanDolPhan]

There is no disputing the value of the QB position.

There is when you overrate average talent. Like I said if these 2 boys came out last year they fight with Losman. I can't see how you can sit here and argue it's a reach to take a RB when your advocating reaching for a late 1st QB with the #2 pick.

 

[arsenal]

What are you talking about? In 1999, Ricky Williams was the consensus number one player and in 2001, LT was just behind Vick, as was McAllister.

how was ricky consensus number 1 when he wasn't even the first RB picked... everyone knew he was good but no one expected him to be a top 3 pick... people thought the colts would take him at i think 4 or 5? but they took edge instead...

but either way they weren't projected to go in the top 3 at all... these RBs are, and LT wasn't behind vick warren was there leanord davis etc... but he was still taken with the 5th pick, you saying he wasnt worth it?

 

[thepoolboy]

There is when you overrate average talent. Like I said if these 2 boys came out last year they fight with Losman. I can't see how you can sit here and argue it's a reach to take a RB when your advocating reaching for a late 1st QB with the #2 pick.

How is Alex Smith overrated? He has done nothing but dominate the last two years. The only tangible quality he lacks is a David Carr-esque arm. His intangible qualities are undisputed.

What have you seen in Alex Smith that convinces you he is not a potential franchise player? Do you recall the game or situation?

 

[TXFinFan]

There is when you overrate average talent. Like I said if these 2 boys came out last year they fight with Losman. I can't see how you can sit here and argue it's a reach to take a RB when your advocating reaching for a late 1st QB with the #2 pick.

I don't even think the QB's this year are better than JP Losman. The top 2 QB's this year would be 2nd round picks last year.

 

[VanDolPhan]

The top five this year is no more distorted than in 1997, 2001 and 2002.

Well then I believe your memory is tainted as Vick and Carr were tabbed as the top of the draft before the Senior Bowls even hit.

 

[NorthFinFan85]

Did you not read the post that you quoted...no RBs have gone in the top 3 since 1996. Do you think that is a coincidence? A QB failing to perform in the NFL is irrelevent as it relates to draft day value. There are as many QB busts as there are RB busts, yet the fact a QB busts does not stop teams from taking QBs at the top. Teams do not take RBs at the top - Do you think Saban is about to change that?

As for 2002 - QB play cost us the playoffs. If FeeFee hit Carter in the endzone vs. Minny or if he gained one first down vs NE during the final game, we're in the playoffs and likely with a first round bye. There is no disputing the value of the QB position.

Trends are meant to be broken.... and these are different circumstances than such previous years. Besides, there has also been RBs taken at the 4-6 spots (a 2-4 spot difference from where Miami picks) in drafts from 1996-2004, so 2 lousy spots down isn't that far of a reach.

 

[PhinBeck]

A TERRELL DAVIS ....

Tom Brady, Terell Owens, Deon Branch. Whats your point?

 

[PhinBeck]

This is not a weak draft at all and the assessment that it is by no means is a fact. The last draft where it was easy to move up was in 1997 - a so called weak draft. The top of that draft has yield better players than most that followed. Pace, Russell (before he became a crackhead), Springs, Boulware, Westbrook (at least he's still in the league), Jones.

Many draft experst say it is a weak draft at the top. not weak overall. the rbs are considered teh cream of the crop this year.

 

[thepoolboy]

how was ricky consensus number 1 when he wasn't even the first RB picked... everyone knew he was good but no one expected him to be a top 3 pick... people thought the colts would take him at i think 4 or 5? but they took edge instead...

but either way they weren't projected to go in the top 3 at all... these RBs are, and LT wasn't behind vick warren was there leanord davis etc... but he was still taken with the 5th pick, you saying he wasnt worth it?

Ricky most certainly was the top rated player in the draft. Edge went ahead of him due to his a receiving ability - Polian alluded that Williams was the better runner but James was the better fit. Akili Smith was overrated on draft day and Donovan McNabb was a top 10 pick that was pushed to 2. Do you not recall the Philly fans losing it after they passed on Williams to take McNabb?

 

[PhinBeck]

Did you not read the post that you quoted...no RBs have gone in the top 3 since 1996. Do you think that is a coincidence? A QB failing to perform in the NFL is irrelevent as it relates to draft day value. There are as many QB busts as there are RB busts, yet the fact a QB busts does not stop teams from taking QBs at the top. Teams do not take RBs at the top - Do you think Saban is about to change that?

As for 2002 - QB play cost us the playoffs. If FeeFee hit Carter in the endzone vs. Minny or if he gained one first down vs NE during the final game, we're in the playoffs and likely with a first round bye. There is no disputing the value of the QB position.

FeeFee did hit Carter in teh endzone, Carter dropped it so there again your Facts are wrong. Maybe if teh defense could have made one third down stop when needed we would have one that game.

 

[arsenal]

ok but regardless were these guys worth it as top picks? was it worth it for LT to be taken at 5 for SD? was edge worth it for the colts at 5? we are at 2, not too far from a 5... your saying they shouldn't have taken those picks?

 

[thepoolboy]

Trends are meant to be broken.... and these are different circumstances than such previous years. Besides, there has also been RBs taken at the 4-6 spots (a 2-4 spot difference from where Miami picks) in drafts from 1996-2004, so 2 lousy spots down isn't that far of a reach.

Yes it is a big drop. Why? Because of the signing bonuses that are committed to the top picks. Besides, if trends are to be broken, do you honestly believe a league that clearly emphasises the pass even more now than it has in the past will suddenly value a position (which is not necessary for same) it has devalued in the past? Not likely.