Official 2007 Florida Marlins Thread

[Ray Finkle]

:confused: Nolasco is the fifth starter and he is a .500 or better pitcher. If you are banking on all our starters taking a step back and one flaw in the outfield for us to play poorly your going to be in for a rough season.

Alex Sanchez will be our centerfielder, not a big name but he has speed and will be a decent #8 hitter.

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Well Sanchez has to make the team first. Anyway I'd be worried about him being the CFer considering he's a 30 year old journey man who hasn't been a full time starter since 2003 and didn't even play in the MLB last year. I think Marlin fans are counting on someone either might not even make the team or will probably be cut by June.

Bottom line: Marlins should trade for Rocco to play CF.

 

[UCFinfan86]

:confused: Nolasco is the fifth starter and he is a .500 or better pitcher. If you are banking on all our starters taking a step back and one flaw in the outfield for us to play poorly your going to be in for a rough season.

Alex Sanchez will be our centerfielder, not a big name but he has speed and will be a decent #8 hitter.

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Nolsaco is in the running for closer, since tankersley is lefthanded they might decide to use him as a specialist this year. And i didnt say all the starters are, but atleast 1 probably will. The Marlins are my 2nd favorite team, but marlins fans think they are going to be soo good this year, i look for them to take a step back and then contend next year. 2nd year SPs usually always regress, and then their 3rd year they bounce back.

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

Number one, Washington is last. They have literally no SP. They make the Mets look like the '01 D'Backs.

Two, the Phillies' acquisitions of Eaton and Garcia are worrisome, because both give up their share of fly balls, and in CBP, that's not good. Their offense is fantastic, but their rotation is a bunch of 3s with the possible exception of Hamels and their pen isn't special. The most complete team, really, is Atlanta. They have an okay offense, they have a pretty good starting staff, solid defense, and a suddenly fantastic bullpen, not to mention the managerial factor. I'd put the Marlins next, especially if a closer and a center fielder emerge, then the Mets because of their offense, then the Phillies, then the Nats. That's in terms of talent on the field. In terms of standings, I'll go 1) Mets, 2) Marlins, 3) Phillies, 4) Braves, 5) Nats, but those 1-4 are all .500+ teams in the 84-88 win range.

I think 2 teams from the division will make the playoffs this year. And IMO the Braves, Phillies and Mets are the 3 that will be fighting for it with the Braves and Phillies coming out in the end. I just don't think the Marlins will be able to hang with them all season long. But hey, they shocked me before, maybe they'll do it again.

 

[MikeO]

I think 2 teams from the division will make the playoffs this year. And IMO the Braves, Phillies and Mets are the 3 that will be fighting for it with the Braves and Phillies coming out in the end. I just don't think the Marlins will be able to hang with them all season long. But hey, they shocked me before, maybe they'll do it again.

Philly's starting pitching is pretty damn good. Granted they play in a bad pitchers ballpark but they do get 81 games on the road and they will pitch good enough at home. With a big lineup, that team is no joke.

 

[RWhitney014]

I love how you point out Phillies flaws, but fails to mention any of Floridas flaws. What about how it seems almost all 2nd year starters regress? What about the fact that Uggla played way over his head? You still don't have a closer, no one knows if tankersley can hold down the job. You guys still need a 5th starter and a CF.

Now the phillies have problems also, but you think Hamels is the only one that isn't a number 3 in their rotation? What about Myers?

Oh, no generalizations there. A lot of guys struggle in their second years, so all of Florida's starters will. There's a thing called talent and a thing called stuff, and every single guy Florida plans to trot out there on a daily basis has both of them. Who said Uggla played over his head last year? Just because he wasn't hailed as an unbelievable prospect doesn't mean he didn't have talent. No one had any idea who that big kid one year removed from Maple Woods Community College in St. Louis' camp in spring 2001 was until Albert Pujols started hitting and hitting and hitting.

As far as the bullpen, we had no set closer in 2005, when Todd Jones lit the world on fire. We had no set closer in 2006, when Joe Borowski had a very nice year until tanking in September. We have no set closer this year, either, but we still have a bunch of guys, again, with great arms and great talent, and I'm confident that one will step up from an educated baseball player analysis standpoint. Center field is a black hole. It doesn't even bear mentioning because there's no defense for it at the moment.

As for the Phillies' starters and Brett Myers, yeah, I think he's a third starter. He's going to give you 12-14 wins and 180-200 innings. He'll dominate a couple games, he'll get blown up a couple games, but mostly he'll give you a nice number of quality starts. Being a number 3 isn't an insult; very few teams have legit 2s and 3s. Most have an ace and a bunch of 4s and 5s. But there's no pitcher on that staff right now that makes me say, "oh, crap, we're going to lose tomorrow, [name] is pitching." Hamels could very well get there this year. But right now, he's in the same boat as the Marlins' young foursome: great stuff, great talent, great arm, but then again, he's in his second year now, so he, by rule, will suck.

Seriously, the Phillies have a nice team, but they always self-destruct, always find ways to blow it, always find excuses why they fall short. Every other team in the division with the exception of the Nationals/Expos has made the playoffs since 2003. The Phillies are the only "contender" who haven't. So let them get there, prove Jimmy Rollins right, and I'll give them their props. Until then, I won't pick them.

 

[UCFinfan86]

Oh, no generalizations there. A lot of guys struggle in their second years, so all of Florida's starters will. There's a thing called talent and a thing called stuff, and every single guy Florida plans to trot out there on a daily basis has both of them. Who said Uggla played over his head last year? Just because he wasn't hailed as an unbelievable prospect doesn't mean he didn't have talent. No one had any idea who that big kid one year removed from Maple Woods Community College in St. Louis' camp in spring 2001 was until Albert Pujols started hitting and hitting and hitting.

As far as the bullpen, we had no set closer in 2005, when Todd Jones lit the world on fire. We had no set closer in 2006, when Joe Borowski had a very nice year until tanking in September. We have no set closer this year, either, but we still have a bunch of guys, again, with great arms and great talent, and I'm confident that one will step up from an educated baseball player analysis standpoint. Center field is a black hole. It doesn't even bear mentioning because there's no defense for it at the moment.

As for the Phillies' starters and Brett Myers, yeah, I think he's a third starter. He's going to give you 12-14 wins and 180-200 innings. He'll dominate a couple games, he'll get blown up a couple games, but mostly he'll give you a nice number of quality starts. Being a number 3 isn't an insult; very few teams have legit 2s and 3s. Most have an ace and a bunch of 4s and 5s. But there's no pitcher on that staff right now that makes me say, "oh, crap, we're going to lose tomorrow, [name] is pitching." Hamels could very well get there this year. But right now, he's in the same boat as the Marlins' young foursome: great stuff, great talent, great arm, but then again, he's in his second year now, so he, by rule, will suck.

Seriously, the Phillies have a nice team, but they always self-destruct, always find ways to blow it, always find excuses why they fall short. Every other team in the division with the exception of the Nationals/Expos has made the playoffs since 2003. The Phillies are the only "contender" who haven't. So let them get there, prove Jimmy Rollins right, and I'll give them their props. Until then, I won't pick them.

I didn't say all of the marlins starters will regress, but some of them most likely will. Theres a thing called Talent? Felix Hernandez regressed last year, he has no talent? Theres a million guys who fail their 2nd year

The phillies might not have any guy who says, oh crap we have to go against him, but neither does Florida.

I just think your extremely biased, which is no problem im the same way with all my teams, Id rather have hope in my team.

 

[RWhitney014]

I didn't say all of the marlins starters will regress, but some of them most likely will. Theres a thing called Talent? Felix Hernandez regressed last year, he has no talent? Theres a million guys who fail their 2nd year

The phillies might not have any guy who says, oh crap we have to go against him, but neither does Florida.

I just think your extremely biased, which is no problem im the same way with all my teams, Id rather have hope in my team.

Dontrelle Willis is better than any pitcher Philadelphia has in their farm system. His crappy year last year was equal to Myers' career best.

Go ask opposing hitters whom they would rather face between Olsen and Moyer, Garcia and Willis, Sanchez and Eaton, Johnson and Hamels, etc., and most will pick to hit against the Phillies.

And your point about Felix Hernandez is circular. You said guys in their second year fail. I said that's a generalization and can't be applied to all of Florida's pitchers. You responded by saying there are "a million guys who fail their 2nd year."

Am I biased? Sure. But it's also in looking at numbers, scouting reports, trends in 2006, and I'll take Florida's rotation over Philadelphia's.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Before I go on my rant I just want to say that I think this is how the East will end up: Mets, Philly, Braves, Marlins, Nationals.

Here's what is confusing me a bit: Philly was 7 games better than FL was last year. In the off-season Philly upgraded their team by adding starting pitching depth in Freddy Garcia and Adam Eaton. Freddy is a solid #3 guy and Eaton (if healthy) is a pretty good #5 starter. So they upgraded in their pitching, 3rd base with Helms and catcher with Barajas. I realize 3rd and catcher aren't major upgrades but upgrades none the less. Phillies pen is still a mess and as much as I'm not a Tom Gordon fan, he gets the job done in the regular season. The Phillies have the bats to carry them into the playoffs, as their line up is almost as good as the Mets (who's pitching staff is a lot worse). I don't understand how people can write off the Phillies but not the Mets as everyone says that the Mets bats can carry them into the playoffs (which I believe they will) even if they have no pitching but why can't Philly, especially considering they have better starters? With the moves the Phillies made they're no reason to believe they can't win 85 games again this year especially with the upgrades to starting pitching and their powerful line up.

Florida hasn't done a thing to address their major problems: CF and closer, two very important positions. When you're biggest move in the winter was signing a back up infielder (Boone) that's a problem. The Marlins were extremely lucky to have their team be healthy basically the whole season and avoid major injuries to their players and now both Johnson and Sanchez have some red flags with their arms so that's something to watch. I think a lot of things went right for the team last year at the same time.

Basically what I'm trying to say is every team in the NL East improvement their teams but Florida and Washington and I just don't think this Marlins team will be better than 80 wins this year and really that's only good enough for 4th place in the NL East.

 

[MikeO]

Before I go on my rant I just want to say that I think this is how the East will end up: Mets, Philly, Braves, Marlins, Nationals.

Here's what is confusing me a bit: Philly was 7 games better than FL was last year. In the off-season Philly upgraded their team by adding starting pitching depth in Freddy Garcia and Adam Eaton. Freddy is a solid #3 guy and Eaton (if healthy) is a pretty good #5 starter. So they upgraded in their pitching, 3rd base with Helms and catcher with Barajas. I realize 3rd and catcher aren't major upgrades but upgrades none the less. Phillies pen is still a mess and as much as I'm not a Tom Gordon fan, he gets the job done in the regular season. The Phillies have the bats to carry them into the playoffs, as their line up is almost as good as the Mets (who's pitching staff is a lot worse). I don't understand how people can write off the Phillies but not the Mets as everyone says that the Mets bats can carry them into the playoffs (which I believe they will) even if they have no pitching but why can't Philly, especially considering they have better starters? With the moves the Phillies made they're no reason to believe they can't win 85 games again this year especially with the upgrades to starting pitching and their powerful line up.

Florida hasn't done a thing to address their major problems: CF and closer, two very important positions. When you're biggest move in the winter was signing a back up infielder (Boone) that's a problem. The Marlins were extremely lucky to have their team be healthy basically the whole season and avoid major injuries to their players and now both Johnson and Sanchez have some red flags with their arms so that's something to watch. I think a lot of things went right for the team last year at the same time.

Basically what I'm trying to say is every team in the NL East improvement their teams but Florida and Washington and I just don't think this Marlins team will be better than 80 wins this year and really that's only good enough for 4th place in the NL East.

One thing you fail to mention is Loria in a stroke of brilliance felt the need to fire the NL manager of the year. That is a move that will haunt this team not only this year but for years to come. Those players played for Joe G.

 

[UCFinfan86]

Dontrelle Willis is better than any pitcher Philadelphia has in their farm system. His crappy year last year was equal to Myers' career best.

Go ask opposing hitters whom they would rather face between Olsen and Moyer, Garcia and Willis, Sanchez and Eaton, Johnson and Hamels, etc., and most will pick to hit against the Phillies.

And your point about Felix Hernandez is circular. You said guys in their second year fail. I said that's a generalization and can't be applied to all of Florida's pitchers. You responded by saying there are "a million guys who fail their 2nd year."

Am I biased? Sure. But it's also in looking at numbers, scouting reports, trends in 2006, and I'll take Florida's rotation over Philadelphia's.

Florida might have an edge in Starting Pitching, but Philly has a bigger lead in Offense

 

[RWhitney014]

Florida might have an edge in Starting Pitching, but Philly has a bigger lead in Offense

Granted, but pitching wins. The 2001 D'Backs won because of Johnson and Schilling, the 2003 Marlins won because of Beckett, Penny, Willis, and Pavano, the 2004 Red Sox won because of Pedro and Schilling and Lowe, the 2005 White Sox, well, nuff said, the 2006 Cards because of Carpenter.

And Mike, Joe Girardi?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20070225-9999-1s25bbhorn.html

However nice the story of Jon Lieber's turnaround last year – the Phillies right-hander went from 4-8 with a 6.09 ERA on July 31 to 5-3, 3.38 in his final 11 starts – purists have to wonder about the source of his improvement. At his low point, Lieber gave up nine runs on 13 hits in only 4 2/3 innings against the Marlins, whereupon he got a phone call from Florida manager Joe Girardi.

“He just mentioned that the hitters said everything that was coming in was just very flat,†Lieber said, attributing his turnabout to that conversation. “Basically I was underneath the ball. I wasn't on top of the ball like I should have been. And that's why the ball doesn't have that crispness when it gets to the strike zone or that sharp break on my breaking ball. It just kind of stays right there for the hitters to lick their lips at.â€Â

OK? Can we put it to rest?

 

[MikeO]

put what to rest?? So a manager helped a player on another team. You think this was the first time this has ever happened?? Happens all the time. Not a big deal!

Girardi did a great job last year and you want to knock him. Unreal

 

[Alex44]

put what to rest?? So a manager helped a player on another team. You think this was the first time this has ever happened?? Happens all the time. Not a big deal!

Girardi did a great job last year and you want to knock him. Unreal

I might be wrong but last year wasnt it you who said managing isnt a big deal at all and overrated?

 

[phinphan896]

Well Sanchez has to make the team first. Anyway I'd be worried about him being the CFer considering he's a 30 year old journey man who hasn't been a full time starter since 2003 and didn't even play in the MLB last year. I think Marlin fans are counting on someone either might not even make the team or will probably be cut by June.

Bottom line: Marlins should trade for Rocco to play CF.

isnt sanchez hurt?

 

[MikeO]

I might be wrong but last year wasnt it you who said managing isnt a big deal at all and overrated?

For the most part yes. Managers only are making at most 1 or 2 important decisions that will effect the outcome of a game. Some games none, it isn't the NBA or NFL!!!

But when you have a young team like Florida the manager becomes MORE important not from an X and O standpoint just from a leadership standpoint. Will be interesting to watch this year.