UCFinfan86
Oronde Gadsden's Official #1 Fan
i think if Detriot can resign Ben and get a good backup SG/SF they will be tough. Plus they need a young backup PF/C cuz Davis and McDyess are about done
Official Detroit Pistons Thread
- Thread starter Alex44
- Start date
King Felix
live it up have no worries
detriot needs to go get some bench.
dob72
☠️ Banned ☠️
trade sheed and rip for darko
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
Hey, great season guys...
The Piston fans on finheaven are not like most Piston fans that are smug and arrogant. You guys are good fans that deserved the team you had.
Gotta tip my cap to Chauncey Billups, Tay Prince, Antonio McDyese, Ben Wallace, and SHEEEEEEEEED...What great competitors...
Rip Hamilton can go straight to hell.
The Piston fans on finheaven are not like most Piston fans that are smug and arrogant. You guys are good fans that deserved the team you had.
Gotta tip my cap to Chauncey Billups, Tay Prince, Antonio McDyese, Ben Wallace, and SHEEEEEEEEED...What great competitors...
Rip Hamilton can go straight to hell.
As I said in the Heat thread, the Pistons did not lose because of Flip, they lost because they bought into the months of hype.
The first series, and the first 2 games of the Cleveland series were too easy for them, and they never played with the same intensity.
Big Ben complained about not working on defense enough, but the fact shows that their offense fell 20 ppg after game 2 of the Cavs series.
Look last night the Stones had a lot of open looks, but could not hit a shot. That's one thing that will happen when you have no inside scoring. If you can't atleast drive to the basket and get lay-ups, your screwed. Everytime Billups or Rip would drive they would pull up for a jump shot; thus one of the reasons the Refs didn't give Rip many calls.
I expect to see the Pistons try to trade Sheed. He helped you win the title 2 years ago, and he might have been an all-star this year, but he disappeared. The only game he had that was good was game 6 against Cleveland. Someone that talented should not be scoring 14 ppg or less
The first series, and the first 2 games of the Cleveland series were too easy for them, and they never played with the same intensity.
Big Ben complained about not working on defense enough, but the fact shows that their offense fell 20 ppg after game 2 of the Cavs series.
Look last night the Stones had a lot of open looks, but could not hit a shot. That's one thing that will happen when you have no inside scoring. If you can't atleast drive to the basket and get lay-ups, your screwed. Everytime Billups or Rip would drive they would pull up for a jump shot; thus one of the reasons the Refs didn't give Rip many calls.
I expect to see the Pistons try to trade Sheed. He helped you win the title 2 years ago, and he might have been an all-star this year, but he disappeared. The only game he had that was good was game 6 against Cleveland. Someone that talented should not be scoring 14 ppg or less
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
Thanks 126. Good luck to your guys in the finals.
Actually, the Pistons didn't lose because of Flip...not entirely, anyway. They also lost because of Larry Brown. (And of course, the Miami Heat had at least a LITTLE to do with it.)
Chad Ford makes an EXCELLENT point on espn.com today. The refusal of Brown, and then Saunders, to develop the young players and develop the bench doomed this team. Ultimately, seeing that Saunders simply wasn't going to play Darko Milicic, Dumars had little recourse but to trade him while he still had value, so he got what looked like a lottery pick in a very strong 2007 draft. As we know, Darko wasn't a complete flop; he looked damn good in Orlando, and had he been given some more burn early in his career (that is, if Detroit's coaches had bought into Dumars' vision and been willing to sacrifice a little short-term gain to get a big long-term one), he could have been giving Detroit points, boards, energy and blocked shots from the bench...not to mention 6 fouls against the Big Whatever, and the Wallaces would have been more rested. And as an added bonus, they wouldn't have been in such rough shape with Ben Wallace being a free agent this summer.
You can say the same for Carlos Delfino. Delfino is an excellent defender; it's hard to imagine he couldn't have done a better job on Dwyane Wade than Hamilton did. His offense needed some work, but with more burn, maybe he comes off the bench and gives the team the offense that Lindsey Hunter can't.
I didn't understand moving Carlos Arroyo when it happened, and I understand it less now. What did Detroit need in this series on offense? A low post scorer, for one. Okay, Arroyo's no help there. But the other thing was a guard to drive into the defense, break things down on the dribble, create shots and run some drive and kick. That's Arroyo to a tee. His defense wasn't great, but on a hobbled Jason Williams and a decrepit Gary Payton, that would have been less of a concern. I suspect Arroyo was moved partly for salary cap room. Very shortsighted, considering Milicic was the key to that deal for Orlando; they probably would have taken Dale Davis, who clearly has nothing left in the tank, instead. Had Saunders been giving Arroyo some minutes, perhaps he would have been kept.
Did the failure to develop these guys cost Detroit the series? Hard to say; Miami played awfully well, and was obviously the better team, so it's shortsighted and arrogant to assume that any one thing would have tipped the balance. Still, it probably would have helped, and if nothing else, the Pistons' future would be less murky. Now, there's a lot of question what Detroit will do. I think they move at least one starter; it just feels like the team's been together too long. I said this elsewhere, but a sign and trade of Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton, plus Orlando's #1 pick for Kevin Garnett would have to be considered. If not Ben Wallace, then Rasheed Wallace. (At this point, I'd prefer to move Ben, because this 4 on 5 on offense thing just isn't going to cut it anymore.) If it takes throwing in a talented youngster like Amir Johnson, or even Delfino, to sweeten the deal sufficiently, so be it. If I were Dumars, though, I'd make a deal for Garnett my top priority. Detroit's one of the few teams that could give up enough talent, is cap-conscious enough to make his salary work, and would have an environment KG would want to be a part of.
I wouldn't be heartbroken if someone like Toronto or Atlanta decided to overpay Wallace. He's probably got 2, maybe 3 years left as a top defensive player. After that, he's going to decline rapidly. If I was Dumars, I wouldn't give him a 5 year contract unless I was at gunpoint. 3 years, $30 million would be more than enough.
Aside from that, Detroit has the mid-level exception, but with Wallace a free agent now, and Billups likely to be one next year, it's questionable whether they'll use it. More than likely, Detroit's bench help must come from the current roster. That means Saunders has to make things work with Jason Maxiell, Carlos Delfino (if he isn't traded), and Maurice Evans (who is plenty good, and I have NO idea why he dropped from the rotation). It should work, those guys are plenty talented enough.
Firing Saunders makes little sense; there's no one distinctly better to replace him. Larry Brown is likely to be available, but is obviously unacceptable. Eric Musselman would have been the only guy I'd consider, but the Kings just hired him. Rick Adelman should be considered only if the Pistons want to start adding to the 87 Eastern Finals, and 88 and 05 Finals in the lore of catastrophic team defeats. But Dumars has to crack the whip a little and tell Saunders that he has to buy into his vision or get out.
It's certainly not hopeless for Detroit, but with the current roster, I believe the championship window has closed.
Actually, the Pistons didn't lose because of Flip...not entirely, anyway. They also lost because of Larry Brown. (And of course, the Miami Heat had at least a LITTLE to do with it.)
Chad Ford makes an EXCELLENT point on espn.com today. The refusal of Brown, and then Saunders, to develop the young players and develop the bench doomed this team. Ultimately, seeing that Saunders simply wasn't going to play Darko Milicic, Dumars had little recourse but to trade him while he still had value, so he got what looked like a lottery pick in a very strong 2007 draft. As we know, Darko wasn't a complete flop; he looked damn good in Orlando, and had he been given some more burn early in his career (that is, if Detroit's coaches had bought into Dumars' vision and been willing to sacrifice a little short-term gain to get a big long-term one), he could have been giving Detroit points, boards, energy and blocked shots from the bench...not to mention 6 fouls against the Big Whatever, and the Wallaces would have been more rested. And as an added bonus, they wouldn't have been in such rough shape with Ben Wallace being a free agent this summer.
You can say the same for Carlos Delfino. Delfino is an excellent defender; it's hard to imagine he couldn't have done a better job on Dwyane Wade than Hamilton did. His offense needed some work, but with more burn, maybe he comes off the bench and gives the team the offense that Lindsey Hunter can't.
I didn't understand moving Carlos Arroyo when it happened, and I understand it less now. What did Detroit need in this series on offense? A low post scorer, for one. Okay, Arroyo's no help there. But the other thing was a guard to drive into the defense, break things down on the dribble, create shots and run some drive and kick. That's Arroyo to a tee. His defense wasn't great, but on a hobbled Jason Williams and a decrepit Gary Payton, that would have been less of a concern. I suspect Arroyo was moved partly for salary cap room. Very shortsighted, considering Milicic was the key to that deal for Orlando; they probably would have taken Dale Davis, who clearly has nothing left in the tank, instead. Had Saunders been giving Arroyo some minutes, perhaps he would have been kept.
Did the failure to develop these guys cost Detroit the series? Hard to say; Miami played awfully well, and was obviously the better team, so it's shortsighted and arrogant to assume that any one thing would have tipped the balance. Still, it probably would have helped, and if nothing else, the Pistons' future would be less murky. Now, there's a lot of question what Detroit will do. I think they move at least one starter; it just feels like the team's been together too long. I said this elsewhere, but a sign and trade of Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton, plus Orlando's #1 pick for Kevin Garnett would have to be considered. If not Ben Wallace, then Rasheed Wallace. (At this point, I'd prefer to move Ben, because this 4 on 5 on offense thing just isn't going to cut it anymore.) If it takes throwing in a talented youngster like Amir Johnson, or even Delfino, to sweeten the deal sufficiently, so be it. If I were Dumars, though, I'd make a deal for Garnett my top priority. Detroit's one of the few teams that could give up enough talent, is cap-conscious enough to make his salary work, and would have an environment KG would want to be a part of.
I wouldn't be heartbroken if someone like Toronto or Atlanta decided to overpay Wallace. He's probably got 2, maybe 3 years left as a top defensive player. After that, he's going to decline rapidly. If I was Dumars, I wouldn't give him a 5 year contract unless I was at gunpoint. 3 years, $30 million would be more than enough.
Aside from that, Detroit has the mid-level exception, but with Wallace a free agent now, and Billups likely to be one next year, it's questionable whether they'll use it. More than likely, Detroit's bench help must come from the current roster. That means Saunders has to make things work with Jason Maxiell, Carlos Delfino (if he isn't traded), and Maurice Evans (who is plenty good, and I have NO idea why he dropped from the rotation). It should work, those guys are plenty talented enough.
Firing Saunders makes little sense; there's no one distinctly better to replace him. Larry Brown is likely to be available, but is obviously unacceptable. Eric Musselman would have been the only guy I'd consider, but the Kings just hired him. Rick Adelman should be considered only if the Pistons want to start adding to the 87 Eastern Finals, and 88 and 05 Finals in the lore of catastrophic team defeats. But Dumars has to crack the whip a little and tell Saunders that he has to buy into his vision or get out.
It's certainly not hopeless for Detroit, but with the current roster, I believe the championship window has closed.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
I think Piston fans need to ask themselves this question: Can you make the ecf's again next year with the current roster? If the answer is yes..you must then look for answers on how to beat Miami. That should be how you procede.
The Heat next year will be more athletic and explosive with The Golden Child (Dorrell Wright) being in the rotation.... I expect him to be a stud..and he could give us a very formidable big three.....
Payton will retire..ZO is iffy.....I know Riley really wants a true Poward Forward and we have the full MLE to get one...
I would love to lure Nazr Mohammed with that MLE..but I have no idea if it will be enough.
So in other words...the Pistons need to do something to stay competetive with the Heat because the Heat has room to improve next season.
The Heat next year will be more athletic and explosive with The Golden Child (Dorrell Wright) being in the rotation.... I expect him to be a stud..and he could give us a very formidable big three.....
Payton will retire..ZO is iffy.....I know Riley really wants a true Poward Forward and we have the full MLE to get one...
I would love to lure Nazr Mohammed with that MLE..but I have no idea if it will be enough.
So in other words...the Pistons need to do something to stay competetive with the Heat because the Heat has room to improve next season.
PhinsTD
Phins fanatic
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Shaq another year older, with another ring in his pocket? I gotta wonder if the Heat are going to be as tough next year.
I'm not as sold on Wright as many Heat fans seem to be.
He seems like another Darius Miles to me (good player, not as good as his hype). I guess we'll see, the Pistons have a lot of tough choices to make, that's for sure.
I'm not as sold on Wright as many Heat fans seem to be.
He seems like another Darius Miles to me (good player, not as good as his hype). I guess we'll see, the Pistons have a lot of tough choices to make, that's for sure.
DPlus47
Out with LaMaga, in with Talita!
phunwin said:
nice post, phil! i was going to ask you what you thought in this thread, but i don't have to. i agree with your main points, and think that working younger guys in might have led to the same results this year but a brighter future down the road. now they're gonna have to tweak a bit. garnett would obviously help a lot, because, IMO, the thing the pistons need more than anything else is a player with a truly multifaceted offensive game. with the exception of sheed (when his heart's in it), everyone is somewhat one-dimensional offensively. and i don't mean to insult prince, who is the one guy from detroit i would take on my team in a second.
this next comment isn't meant to be a dig or an insult, but a question of rhetorical strategy:
i really didn't understand the mindset produced by the "pressure's on miami now" rhetoric and "game 6 is just always our game" that we were hearing from not just the beat writers, but the players (hunter is the first one that comes to mind, but others were talkative like this). when you have made your reputation playing with your backs against the wall, why would you want to declare game 6 a victory before it has been played? it struck me that they may as well have come out saying "we're great with our backs to the wall, but it's clearly the heat who have their backs to the wall here..."
Alex44
Chicago Bears GM
Dont blame Flip
He cant sink the shots, he got you guys open shots and you just missed them, it happens at times and it happend to you guys at the worst time possible
Meet you back in the same place next year....it wouldnt be fun playin anyone else
He cant sink the shots, he got you guys open shots and you just missed them, it happens at times and it happend to you guys at the worst time possible
Meet you back in the same place next year....it wouldnt be fun playin anyone else
trate121hb
Go Heat!
PhinsTD said:
wright will be a good player next yr....the kid has a ton of talent...he's just on a really deep team
i dont give sheed what anyone says.....the heat are the better team ....and im glad riley is looking good for all the moves every1 questioned......
this has become a great rivalry...i was at the game last night and it was insane
Alex44
Chicago Bears GM
trate121hb said:
Dorell Wright is going to be a superstar, the only question is will it be with Miami
He didnt play his first year because he was to skinny, and not built for the NBA yet, this year when he played he played very well, and he is just going to get better with experience, He and Dwyane Wade are friends to, work out together in the offseason, so im hoping he stays in Miami
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
Section126 said:
I don't really like the "let's load up for team X" strategy, IMHO. That leads to things like signing Dale Davis to a 2 year, $7M deal with the idea that he can give Shaq 6 hard fouls. Obviously, that didn't work out. No, the focus has to be on getting the best team together, period, and going from there. Miami's obviously the best team in the East. NJ and Cleveland will be getting better, too. No, there's just too much that can happen over the course of a year. And in any event, the things that plagued the Pistons in the Miami series are most of the same things that nearly cost them the Cleveland series. Miami, of course, was a much better team, and therefore able to capitalize.
As for the MLE, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. The Heat already have $59.6M committed to next year's salary cap, and that doesn't count Payton, Mourning, or a max extension for Wade. Though that extension wouldn't take effect until 2007-8, the MLE is seldom used on a 1 year, $5.5M (or whatever the MLE is this year) contract. If the Heat are going to exceed the luxury tax, fine, but it sounded like Arison doesn't want to do that. We'll see. Detroit, of course, is in a similar situation with the MLE.
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
DPlus47 said:
For what it's worth, I don't think there's a great chance of getting Garnett. Just seems too far-fetched. But, Joe Dumars obviously has the stones to make big things happen, so who knows. I think he'd be exactly what this team needs.
I don't know. It's probably the same line of thinking that leads guys like Tom Brady to ***** about being "disrespected". Honestly, if I understood the psyche of professional athletes, I wouldn't be defending insurance companies for a living.
Section126 said:
i actually like rip, hes a good guy and he gave the heat a lot of credit after the game and said that he's rooting for them to bring the title to the east...good guy but when your playing him you have to hate him