Omar said Tua's arm still isnt back

[Jamesw]

Are you kidding? He had a great arm...

Marino had a top tier arm. Not the strongest but definitely far above average. Tua has an average arm, similar to Montana. Hopefully Tua can use his accuracy in the same way both Montana and Marino did. I have faith in is accuracy, intelligence, work ethic and leadership (although I want him a bit more aggressive).

I once had a conversation with former Dolphins QB Scott Mitchell, who lived near my USA home and coached the local High School Team. I asked him about Marino. He said: "Dan was a big Italian family guy. Some of us thought he was a jerk, until we understood that he was only about winning. Then we understood. Dan Marino was the best QB I have ever seen."

It was fun to have a conversation with Scott.

Tua will never be Marino, but he can be a great QB and hopefully get that SB win that Dan wasn't able to achieve.

 

[where's th'fish]

Don't get me wrong. And relex.
Dan did have a good arm, however not cannon arm.
If you read my post again, I stated that he wasn't known for big arm, that doesn't mean he did not have arm strength. What that mean was Dan was successful because of many attributes and rely on arm strength was not the top few.

This is the first time I have ever heard it said anywhere Dan didn't have an elite arm and I'm pretty surprised it comes from a Dolphin fan. In fact, just about the thing that most sticks to memory about him is how quickly the ball got where it was supposed to go. Putting air under the ball was not something that came easy to Marino.

 

[Dan13Forever]

This is the first time I have ever heard it said anywhere Dan didn't have an elite arm and I'm pretty surprised it comes from a Dolphin fan. In fact, just about the thing that most sticks to memory about him is how quickly the ball got where it was supposed to go. Putting air under the ball was not something that came easy to Marino.

Did you read my post or just being argumentative? I said he had good arm.

I don't know how old you are. But back in the day, when football analysts talked about Marino, first thing they said was his quick release. Second thing they talked about was his evasiveness in the pocket, then talked about how he dissect defense with audible. Arm strength was not their top topic. If you still don't understand what I am trying to say, I guess I fail you. And I am not going to continue. Have a good night.

 

[where's th'fish]

Did you read my post or just being argumentative? I said he had good arm.

I don't know how old you are. But back in the day, when football analysts talked about Marino, first thing they said was his quick release. Second thing they talked about was his evasiveness in the pocket, then talked about how he dissect defense with audible. Arm strength was not their top topic. If you still don't understand what I am trying to say, I guess I fail you. And I am not going to continue. Have a good night.

I understand what you're saying. We all do. It's not that we misunderstand you. Almost everyone who has replied to you understands you and disagrees. Maybe one day those nextgen stats will settle the issue, but for now we'll just have to leave it at that.

 

[EPBro]

Are you kidding? He had a great arm...

Nobody is saying his arm strength was not good. I'm just highlighting that arm strength alone does not dictate the complete make up of a passer.

He was not known as "the biggest arm" and it you actually go back and watch the QB Pro Bowl challenge when they throw for distance, Dan was FAR from the head of the pack.

By Omar's logic this would mean average QBs were "better" then Dan cause they threw farther. Wrong.

Rounding out to the point. Tua has PLENTY of arm to make every throw he needs to. His quick release, accuracy and instinct is what is hopefully going to separate him.

Dan was the purest passer, can't have a noodle arm and have that title.

But there is nuance is evaluation of a QBs arm talent, and it is not just about "strength".

And Dan is the model of a complete passer.

 

[EPBro]

Marino had a top tier arm. Not the strongest but definitely far above average. Tua has an average arm, similar to Montana. Hopefully Tua can use his accuracy in the same way both Montana and Marino did. I have faith in is accuracy, intelligence, work ethic and leadership (although I want him a bit more aggressive).

I once had a conversation with former Dolphins QB Scott Mitchell, who lived near my USA home and coached the local High School Team. I asked him about Marino. He said: "Dan was a big Italian family guy. Some of us thought he was a jerk, until we understood that he was only about winning. Then we understood. Dan Marino was the best QB I have ever seen."

It was fun to have a conversation with Scott.

Tua will never be Marino, but he can be a great QB and hopefully get that SB win that Dan wasn't able to achieve.

There is top tier - Jeff George, JaMarcus Russel, Randall Cunningham etc.

Would good be the same as above average? Or better.

All I'm saying is Marino was not top tier but was in the conversation with the next set of passers. Call that Good, Above Average, Solid, w.e you want.

His other attributes made him great not just having "good" arm strength.

People need to realize that just because he is Dan Marino does not mean he EVER had the strongest arm at the position in his era.

This is what I am pointing out.

 

[TheWozz]

There is top tier - Jeff George, JaMarcus Russel, Randall Cunningham etc.

Would good be the same as above average? Or better.

All I'm saying is Marino was not top tier but was in the conversation with the next set of passers. Call that Good, Above Average, Solid, w.e you want.

His other attributes made him great not just having "good" arm strength.

People need to realize that just because he is Dan Marino does not mean he EVER had the strongest arm at the position in his era.

This is what I am pointing out.

I think everyone arguing the point has said that there were others with bigger arms...but Dan's was still a cannon relative to most QBs in his day and since.

To your earlier point about distance...when I think of cannon arm, I think of being able to throw a 20 yard out on a frozen rope...not most of the football field like a punt. I know that it's subjective...but that is what impresses me as far as arm strength as, I think, that comes into play more often than a 60 yard bomb.

 

[rent this space]

There is top tier - Jeff George, JaMarcus Russel, Randall Cunningham etc.

Would good be the same as above average? Or better.

All I'm saying is Marino was not top tier but was in the conversation with the next set of passers. Call that Good, Above Average, Solid, w.e you want.

His other attributes made him great not just having "good" arm strength.

People need to realize that just because he is Dan Marino does not mean he EVER had the strongest arm at the position in his era.

This is what I am pointing out.

Did you see him play?

 

[13marino13]

I think everyone arguing the point has said that there were others with bigger arms...but Dan's was still a cannon relative to most QBs in his day and since.

To your earlier point about distance...when I think of cannon arm, I think of being able to throw a 20 yard out on a frozen rope...not most of the football field like a punt. I know that it's subjective...but that is what impresses me as far as arm strength as, I think, that comes into play more often than a 60 yard bomb.

Right on. Making a 20-40 yard throw on a frozen rope requires different mechanics than throwing a ball 60 yards in the air. Dan's throwing was more compact with a low release point. Some of those other QB's mentioned throwing those bombs more routinely would start from a lower position and had more of a "wind-up" involved, that was never Dan's style. Look at Randall cunningham, his arm arc was like a Ferris wheel, he really wound up and it was a long throwing motion. I would put Dan up against any of the other mentioned quarterbacks in mid-field throwing, they may have been able to launch a ball farther but they weren't getting it there quicker on a 30 yard out. He got more zip out of the ball throwing with less actual forward arm movement than just about anyone in the history of the game. His quick release and velocity made it very hard to play the ball. You seldom saw him float rainbows downfield, everything was on a line, even the deep ones...

 

[EPBro]

I think everyone arguing the point has said that there were others with bigger arms...but Dan's was still a cannon relative to most QBs in his day and since.

To your earlier point about distance...when I think of cannon arm, I think of being able to throw a 20 yard out on a frozen rope...not most of the football field like a punt. I know that it's subjective...but that is what impresses me as far as arm strength as, I think, that comes into play more often than a 60 yard bomb.

I agree 100%.

Velocity on the ball was terrific.

And the need to throw that far rarely presents itself.

But how far you can throw a football accurately is a true barometer for raw arm strength.

He said himself distance was overrated.

 

[13marino13]

 

[EPBro]

Did you see him play?

I did and I can still objectively look at his attributes in a vacuum.

If you islote just arm strength and power, he was not at the top of the list.

It was his unique motion of not drawing the ball back too far that allowed for the quickest release in NFL history. It was his instinct that gave him the best ever anticipation. His gunslinger mentality to fit the ball into the tightest windows. It was his fire and tenacity that drove him to never be out of a game. And he had tremendous feet and could throw from any platform.

When you combine all of that it "looks" like it's the biggest arm ever, when in reality it's other factors outside of how hard you can throw a ball that allows for this perspective.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Right on. Making a 20-40 yard throw on a frozen rope requires different mechanics than throwing a ball 60 yards in the air. Dan's throwing was more compact with a low release point. Some of those other QB's mentioned throwing those bombs more routinely would start from a lower position and had more of a "wind-up" involved, that was never Dan's style. Look at Randall cunningham, his arm arc was like a Ferris wheel, he really wound up and it was a long throwing motion. I would put Dan up against any of the other mentioned quarterbacks in mid-field throwing, they may have been able to launch a ball farther but they weren't getting it there quicker on a 30 yard out. He got more zip out of the ball throwing with less actual forward arm movement than just about anyone in the history of the game. His quick release and velocity made it very hard to play the ball. You seldom saw him float rainbows downfield, everything was on a line, even the deep ones...

Terrific summary. Marino had an excellent arm and technique, especially for the midrange throws. He threw a dart over the middle for a touchdown at Shea Stadium as a rookie that astonished Shula and was probably the biggest wow throw of that season.

Tua has a quick release but last year he was hesitant and lacking on those key midrange throws. How he progresses there will dictate the course of his career.

No matter the sport or specialization within that sport the first thing I notice is mechanics. I have no idea what happened with football quarterbacks recently. For all the supposed sophistication in position coaches it shouldn't be possible for so many talented young quarterbacks to have developed such miserable technique, and especially that high elbow chicken wing that is showing up all over the place, regulating Cam Newton and Carson Wentz and Justin Fields, among others. Contrast to decades ago when a shorter less talented guy like Joe Ferguson built a long successful career in the league largely because he had such gorgeous basic footwork and delivery. As soon as I saw Ferguson at Arkansas it was obvious he had NFL throwing motion, far superior -- for example -- to his predecessor at Arkansas, the famed college quarterback Bill Montgomery.

BTW, I have seen some early photos of Wentz with the Colts. It is obvious they are prioritizing his mechanics. Release is relaxed and over the top. We'll see if that translates to live action. There was never anything wrong with Wentz except that incompetent windup he developed.

 

[Yoodakine56]

Tua to Albert Wilson

 

[Crump]

e is evaluation of a Q

meh it didnt copy the entire quote but you'll get the gist. Yeah i was always shocked that Marino was always way down on the charts for the long distance competitions. It almost looked like he didnt feel natural trying to throw for distance there. If it was duper sprinting down the sideline and hitting him in stride 60 yards down field (which would be i dunno, 68 yards, dont feel like doing geometry this early) i feel like he would hit him in stride and thread it thru a needle.

In regards to getting back to Tuas arm. I stated it in the post last year where he was throwing his scripted routine. he looked good moving around and on touch passes. I know he was fresh off the hip and it was a year ago, but i think when he tried to rocket the ball to his recievers it looked like the ball was getting up on him.

So do i think he could possibly break some fingers if he wanted. Not like Brett Farve, but he can let it rip from time to time, i just think he was worried about losing too much accuracy. At some point you kind of want to see him not play it safe and go for it. no better time than in practice to start getting that mentality.

I know most of us remember the RT spat in practice where a practice squad player was trying to be a basketball shorts hero and had words with RT after an int. You really think Marino wouldnt try firing a rocket thru the LB on the next play to get it to the WR