Omar said Tua's arm still isnt back

[Feverdream]

There have been a number of star NFL QBs who've had relatively weak arms... they've overcome this with better vision, higher intelligence, and superior anticipation. It also helps when he's been with the team for a couple of years and knows what his receivers are apt to do on a given play.

Tua's arm isn't great... it's NEVER been great. That really isn't his game, and he should be fine so long as he doesn't lose too much of his velocity... for instance... like with Bernie Kosar the last couple of years that he played.

Don't get dragged into an arm-strength debate... it is pointless.

 

[Feverdream]

That's an entirely different discussion. Do you think Watson and Tua have the same toolsets otherwise? Build? Running ability? Watson prowess comes from his ability to evade pressure and throw on the move.

Tua as we know is very poor when moving outside the pocket (chart below). That doesn't even get into his ability to run/evade pressure. Turn Watson into a pocket passer without his evasive abilities and I don't think you don't have the same QB.

View attachment 78082

Heh! We KNOW that Tua is very poor when moving outside of the pocket do we? ...and you have this handy dandy chart to blow hot air into that sobriety stop balloon?

I don't think we know that.
Because it just isn't true over time.

 

[Delvin]

Heh! We KNOW that Tua is very poor when moving outside of the pocket do we? ...and you have this handy dandy chart to blow hot air into that sobriety stop balloon?

I don't think we know that.
Because it just isn't true over time.

It was certainly true last season. You can argue that sample isn't large enough. That's fair.

 

[Feverdream]

It was certainly true last season. You can argue that sample isn't large enough. That's fair.

Then make that argument instead of the puffery that you tried.

Any argument that starts with 'we know this' or 'we know that' is going to be crap 99% of the time.

 

[Delvin]

Then make that argument instead of the puffery that you tried.

Any argument that starts with 'we know this' or 'we know that' is going to be crap 99% of the time.

Make what argument? We know Tua was very poor throwing outside the pocket last year. Does that help? Does that change anything?

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

That's an entirely different discussion. Do you think Watson and Tua have the same toolsets otherwise? Build? Running ability? Watson prowess comes from his ability to evade pressure and throw on the move.

Tua as we know is very poor when moving outside the pocket (chart below). That doesn't even get into his ability to run/evade pressure. Turn Watson into a pocket passer without his evasive abilities and I don't think you don't have the same QB.

View attachment 78082

No, he doesn't have the same build or speed. He does have very good pocket awareness tho. (he also doesn't NEED to be as good as Watson to be successful)

And I believe Tua was quite good at evading pressure and throwing on the move before he dislocated his hip 9 months before last season.

That is why I'm waiting until he plays a season where he's more than one year removed from a completely devastating injury before I decide what he can or can't be.

 

[Delvin]

No he, doesn't have the same build or speed. He does have very good pocket awareness tho. (he also doesn't need to be as good as Watson to be successful)

And I believe Tua was quite good at evading pressure and throwing on the move before he dislocated his hip 9 months before last season.

That is why I'm waiting until he plays a season where he's more than one year removed from a complete devastating injury before I decide what he can or can't be.

That's a reasonable position.

 

[andyahs]

Just used the ignore function.

Twice you've told me that. 3 times the charm baby.

 

[Feverdream]

Make what argument? We know Tua was very poor throwing outside the pocket last year. Does that help? Does that change anything?

No... we don't know that either.

We know that on the limited throws that your statistical service managed to compile, that his completion percentage was not super high.

We don't know why that is. We don't know whether that was due to his physique, his injuries, or his supporting crew.

Now you are trying the other main dodge that we see so often at sports boards... drawing huge conclusions from minimal data.

It's kind of cute.

 

[Delvin]

No... we don't know that either.

We know that on the limited throws that your statistical service managed to compile, that his completion percentage was not super high.

We don't know why that is. We don't know whether that was due to his physique, his injuries, or his supporting crew.

Now you are trying the other main dodge that we see so often at sports boards... drawing huge conclusions from minimal data.

It's kind of cute.

Unfortunately, the why doesn't change the facts on the ground. Tua was bad moving outside the pocket last year. That's the facts. The results.

Whether that was due to his hip, physique, whether he is slow, whether his arm isn't strong enough, his little body isn't strong enough, or his accuracy suffers running is rather irrelevant. You can guess whatever you want on the why.

 

[Feverdream]

Unfortunately, the why doesn't change the facts on the ground. Tua was bad moving outside the pocket last year. That's the facts. The results.

Whether that was due to his hip, physique, whether he is slow, whether his arm isn't strong enough, or his accuracy suffers running is rather irrelevant. You can guess whatever you want on the why.

No... it isn't a fact.

It is your assertion, and you are arguing either very sloppily, or in very bad faith...

I'll leave you to it.

 

[Delvin]

No... it isn't a fact.

It is your assertion, and you are arguing either very sloppily, or in very bad faith...

I'll leave you to it.

It's just the stats. Facts, not baseless assertions.

 

[Mach2]

Because the chart states Tua's arm strength/velocity. It's rather relevant when discussing Tua's arm strength in a thread about Tua's arm strength.

Maybe you should start a thread about DeShaun Watson's arm strength in 2017?

You posted the chart as a comp.

@NBP81 has a legitimate question.

How do you rate Watson's arm strength? It's a pretty straightforward query.

 

[Yoodakine56]

It's just the stats. Facts, not baseless assertions.

View attachment 78084

Can you show the source please? Just out of curiousity

 

[Jamesw]

This is a funny debate. Based on an Omar article. I think its a bit more complex. I was a huge draft Herbert supporter. I saw all the physical tools I love in a QB. I also saw humility and drive which I value. When we drafted Tua, I was slightly disappointed, but I knew I was in the minority in wanting Herbert over Tua and I trust our GM and Coach on their decision. As we know Herbert was extremely impressive in his debut season. I think most of us would draft Herbert over Tua if we could do that draft over again.......BUT.......THAT MAY COMPLETELY REVERSE ITSSELF AFER THIS SEASON! Tua may have a huge season, fully recovered from the hip and surrounded by top tier receivers.

His arm strength is good enough, his movement inside and outside the pocket is good enough. His accuracy is a strength, and his intelligence, dedication, humility, coachability and drive are great! If Tua has the season we all hope he will, Omar will be the first guy to say he supported Tua all along and that Tua was on his "man-crush" list. That is actually accurate, but a normal example of media being on all sides of every debate.