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Parker or Williams?

DOLFAN_51

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Give me Bowden and Wilson over Grant any day of the week.Grant is a decent returner but he is barely adequate as an NFL WR. The only way I see Grant making the team is the coaching staff don‘t want to risk using Waddle or Holland as the teams kick returner because they are more valuable on offense and defense.

I don’t see Grant as a top 7 WR at this time and I think they will probably just keep 6 WR on the final 53.
I agree with you on Bowden. IMO he is the 4th best WR on the team.

But I do think Grant would finally be used to his full potential on this team and the team would want to see what that looks like. Plus he’s been the guy putting in the most work. Trying to improve himself and help his QB. A bird in the hand is worth 3 injured/opt out players who never really posted great numbers either.
 

Mach2

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I agree with you on Bowden. IMO he is the 4th best WR on the team.

But I do think Grant would finally be used to his full potential on this team and the team would want to see what that looks like. Plus he’s been the guy putting in the most work. Trying to improve himself and help his QB. A bird in the hand is worth 3 injured/opt out players who never really posted great numbers either.
Honestly, I think we've already seen his full potential and I, for one, want more.

I like the person, and you are right, he has worked hard, but sometimes that just isn't enough.

I'm not going to be upset if he stays, but believe we can do better in a receiver, and I don't believe in using a limited roster spot solely for a punt returner.
 

DOLFAN_51

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Honestly, I think we've already seen his full potential and I, for one, want more.

I like the person, and you are right, he has worked hard, but sometimes that just isn't enough.

I'm not going to be upset if he stays, but believe we can do better in a receiver, and I don't believe in using a limited roster spot solely for a punt returner.
The reason why I say he can finally play to his potential is because he can finally play in space. With all the options around him it will be easy to get him in space on a short pass that he can take for big gains. It’s what better teams do. He could be unstoppable in a place like Tamp, Green Bay, Houston or KC. A place where they make big plays downfield. Now that we have those other players that could compliment him, it would be nice to see what he can do here. It’s not about having the best 5 Wrs. It’s about having the best 5 Wrs who execute the offense the best. If we already have 2 big downfield WRs and a TE running down the seam, why do we really want more big WRs running those quick cut underneath patterns?
 

AdamD13

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Mmm Hmmmm.
Here are the game logs through the 1st 8 games for PW and DVP...

PW Game Log 2020 - 8 games.PNG
Parker Game Log 2020 - 8 games.PNG

Guess which is PW and which is DVP...

But there is more :)

Here is the context for the two games PW had more than 2 catches this year:

SFO: The 49ers were missing several DBs (Johnson, Moseley, Williams) due to injury and activated Brian Allen off of the practice squad the day before the game. Fitzpatrick like any veteran QB would do threw to which ever WR was being covered by Allen. When Allen was playing man on the boundary vs PW he got torched. When Allen was matched up with DVP he got torched. I believe the 49ers benched him at halftime putting in a DB with a hamstring issue. This was the only game action Allen played all year.

ARI: The Cardinals were missing several DBs (Kirkpatrick - injury and Murphy - COVID related) and PW was mostly matched up with Peterson. No, not Patrick Peterson it was Kevin Peterson. Kevin Peterson was a special teams player and got his only start of the year, really only game action other than ST. Like any good QB would do, Tua targeted PW when covered by Kevin. On PW’s TD the Cards left him all alone around the 5 yard line.

If the claim is the PW is better when he is being covered by PS and ST players than DVP is when covered by legitimate starting CBs then I would probably agree with statement.

I honestly had high hopes for PW. I recall X talking him up during training camp his rookie year. PW's first preseason game was his best game imo. He made three excellent catches. But has been highly inconsistent ever since.

In his rookie year PW dropped several TD passes. This past year PW dropped a TD pass on 4 and 1 in the endzone in the 3rd quarter against the Bills in which Miami lost 31-28.

PW was manhandled against the Patriots and what doesn't go on his stat sheet is that he fell down on a break resulting in and interception and fell down on a scramble by Fitz in which he wisely chose to take a sack as a result.

Besides the drops and the falls, PW also has terrible habit of trying to jump on passes that would hit him in his numbers in order to basket-catch the ball.

PW reminds me of Chris Chambers who some fans thought was great. Both can make spectacular catches, but those get negated by the poor plays. QBs only completed 48.7% of passes throwing to CC during his career and so far QBs only complete 52.6% of their passes when throwing to PW. If you took out the two games in which PW was primarily covered with a PS and ST player getting their only game action in the secondary that completion % drops down below 50%.

The idea that PW outplayed or became the primary over DVP is not grounded in reality. There were a couple of games in which matchups were favorable to throw him the ball but nothing more than that.
 
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Mach2

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The reason why I say he can finally play to his potential is because he can finally play in space. With all the options around him it will be easy to get him in space on a short pass that he can take for big gains. It’s what better teams do. He could be unstoppable in a place like Tamp, Green Bay, Houston or KC. A place where they make big plays downfield. Now that we have those other players that could compliment him, it would be nice to see what he can do here. It’s not about having the best 5 Wrs. It’s about having the best 5 Wrs who execute the offense the best. If we already have 2 big downfield WRs and a TE running down the seam, why do we really want more big WRs running those quick cut underneath patterns?
Two problems off the top of my head. Questionable hands, and below average route running.

I agree the field will open up a bit, and he might see less jams getting off the line as a result, but a good reciever still has to read the leverages correctly, and run the precise route that dictates.

His great asset is his speed, but say we keep Wilson, as well as Fuller and Waddle. Speed alone is not going to get him a spot.

If he comes into camp, and beats out the competition for a spot, awesome. If not, so be it.
 

Joe Dolfan

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I think some people just expected way too much too fast from the kid. If you compare him to most wrs selected in the 6th or 7th round or who were a udfa you will see he's way ahead of schedule. He's played in 16 games and has 50 receptions 700 yards and 7 tds. That would be a hell of a rookie season for a late round pick. Sure he's missed half his games in his first two seasons, but most late round picks aren't playing in 16 games during their first two seasons either, even if they're healthy. For example Jakeem Grant, who did play in all 32 games in his first two seasons mostly as a special teams player, had 13 receptions, 203 yards and 2 tds. Isaiah Ford played in 9 games had 23 receptions, 244 yards and 0 tds. Even Rishard Matthews played in 24 games his first two seasons had 52 receptions 600 yards and 0 tds.

I think Williams still has areas in his game that he needs to improve, like reducing the drops, but I think he's shown he's at the very least a good role player in the NFL and if he can stay healthy and cut his drops in half he can be a decent NFL starting wr. I expect Parker, Waddle and Fuller to get a majority of the wr targets in 2021, so you could do a lot worse than Williams as your number 4 or 5 wr on a roster.
However, Williams could've gone in the 2nd round if he didn't have character issues.
 

circumstances

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Here are the game logs through the 1st 8 games for PW and DVP...

View attachment 78195
View attachment 78196

Guess which is PW and which is DVP...

But there is more :)

Here is the context for the two games PW had more than 2 catches this year:

SFO: The 49ers were missing several DBs (Johnson, Moseley, Williams) due to injury and activated Brian Allen off of the practice squad the day before the game. Fitzpatrick like any veteran QB would do threw to which ever WR was being covered by Allen. When Allen was playing man on the boundary vs PW he got torched. When Allen was matched up with DVP he got torched. I believe the 49ers benched him at halftime putting in a DB with a hamstring issue. This was the only game action Allen played all year.

ARI: The Cardinals were missing several DBs (Kirkpatrick - injury and Murphy - COVID related) and PW was mostly matched up with Peterson. No, not Patrick Peterson it was Kevin Peterson. Kevin Peterson was a special teams player and got his only start of the year, really only game action other than ST. Like any good QB would do, Tua targeted PW when covered by Kevin. On PW’s TD the Cards left him all alone around the 5 yard line.

If the claim is the PW is better when he is being covered by PS and ST players than DVP is when covered by legitimate starting CBs then I would probably agree with statement.

I honestly had high hopes for PW. I recall X talking him up during training camp his rookie year. PW's first preseason game was his best game imo. He made three excellent catches. But has been highly inconsistent ever since.

In his rookie year PW dropped several TD passes. This past year PW dropped a TD pass on 4 and 1 in the endzone in the 3rd quarter against the Bills in which Miami lost 31-28.

PW was manhandled against the Patriots and what doesn't go on his stat sheet is that he fell down on a break resulting in and interception and fell down on a scramble by Fitz in which he wisely chose to take a sack as a result.

Besides the drops and the falls, PW also has terrible habit of trying to jump on passes that would hit him in his numbers in order to basket-catch the ball.

PW reminds me of Chris Chambers who some fans thought was great. Both can make spectacular catches, but those get negated by the poor plays. QBs only completed 48.7% of passes throwing to CC during his career and so far QBs only complete 52.6% of their passes when throwing to PW. If you took out the two games in which PW was primarily covered with a PS and ST player getting their only game action in the secondary that completion % drops down below 50%.

The idea that PW outplayed or became the primary over DVP is not grounded in reality. There were a couple of games in which matchups were favorable to throw him the ball but nothing more than that.
he isn't near the receiver DVP is, but he was UDFA and has only played 2 half seasons in his career due to injury.

hopefully he works hard and improves in all those areas you mentioned in your analysis, and he is connecting with Tua bringing wins to this franchise for a decade.
 

NBP81

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Only reason this anwser could be Williams is if he gets to a point were there isnt that big a difference in production between the 2 and you get a good trade offer for Parker. Parker does hold value given his current contract.
 

AdamD13

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he isn't near the receiver DVP is, but he was UDFA and has only played 2 half seasons in his career due to injury.

hopefully he works hard and improves in all those areas you mentioned in your analysis, and he is connecting with Tua bringing wins to this franchise for a decade.
I am not opposed to that and would love it.

I may be premature in assessing that PW won’t improve habits and become a dependable target. I just haven’t seen progression in his game that many players make in year two.

Perhaps that is injury related and he
was on the verge of being a consistent and reliable option.
 

circumstances

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I am not opposed to that and would love it.

I may be premature in assessing that PW won’t improve habits and become a dependable target. I just haven’t seen progression in his game that many players make in year two.

Perhaps that is injury related and he
was on the verge of being a consistent and reliable option.
i think he was a shadow of himself until the first half of that Arizona game.

which was about the 12 month anniversary of the torn ACL.

i commend him for playing, but the game he got injured was the first game I saw him rounding back to form.
 

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You watch the film of the Williams injury and it is pretty clear. He catches the TD.. gets up, does a hurky jerky dance across the endzone, huge smile on his face. Then Wilkins jumps on him and William's recoils from pain as the camera cuts away from the action.
Then Flores came out and said, 'we don't know when he was injured..."

LOL... it couldn't have been more clear.
 

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You watch the film of the Williams injury and it is pretty clear. He catches the TD.. gets up, does a hurky jerky dance across the endzone, huge smile on his face. Then Wilkins jumps on him and William's recoils from pain as the camera cuts away from the action.
Then Flores came out and said, 'we don't know when he was injured..."

LOL... it couldn't have been more clear.
i haven't watched it in a while, but i remember right after the touchdown i was pissed that the defender gave his foot the business.

wilkins could have caused it, it made it worse, or not affected it at all, i have no idea.

i just distinctly remember some non-kosher foot twisting as part of the "tackle."
 

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i haven't watched it in a while, but i remember right after the touchdown i was pissed that the defender gave his foot the business.

wilkins could have caused it, it made it worse, or not affected it at all, i have no idea.

i just distinctly remember some non-kosher foot twisting as part of the "tackle."
Watch it again... watch Preston dance across the endzone. He wasn't hurt.
 

Mach2

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Does it really matter at this point?

Whether it was the defender twisting his foot (which should be a penalty in that situation, IMO), or after, in either case I would say it was kind of a bad luck, "freak" thing, rather than a player durability issue.

He should never have been returning punts the first time he was injured either, IMO.

One thing is sure this year. If he makes the roster, he will have earned it by beating out some good competition, unlike the first year with a dismantled roster, or the second year with guys we were counting on opting out, leaving very few viable options.
 

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Watch it again... watch Preston dance across the endzone. He wasn't hurt.
I will watch it again (ugh).

he just may not have known his foot was effed up for a few seconds (during the dance).
 
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