I call excuses excuses.
I didn't say give up on the guy but most QBs have success w/in their first 2 years of starting. How many decent and better QBs have not made the playoffs w/in their first 2 years of starting? Not many.
Rank Tannehill Among Young QB's?
- Thread starter So Be
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I call excuses excuses.
I didn't say give up on the guy but most QBs have success w/in their first 2 years of starting. How many decent and better QBs have not made the playoffs w/in their first 2 years of starting? Not many.
And?
Of those ten teams, Seattle was second fewest in attempts. Of all the teams with a YPA of greater than 7.0, only SF, Sea, and Car have fewer than 500 attempted passes. Nobody is saying that Wilson wasn't efficient. He most certainly was. IMO, part of the reason for his efficiency was the small number of attempts and the requirement for opposing defenses to focus on the running game . It just so happens that the same three teams are 1, 2, and 3 in points allowed. Preventing the other team from scoring means you don't play from behind. You can stick to the running game. You can pick your spots. You can be more efficient passing the football.
When you have the lead and can run the ball, you force the other team to try to stop you and get the ball back. That opens up opportunities for big chunk plays (which helps YPA). If they don't work, you punt and rely on your crushing defense to stop the other team again. And so it goes. It all works together (as long as you have all the pieces).
The teams above 7.0 YPA are:
Phi, Sea, Den, SD, GB, NO, SF, Chi, Arz, Cin, Pit, Det, Dal, Car
of those, these are also in the top 10 in passing yards:
Den, NO, Det, SD, Chi, GB, Cin, Phi, Pit, Arz, Dal
Those are the teams that combined efficiency and quantity. IMO, there are only 3 "surprises" on the list:
1. NE was not on it. This has been discussed at length, and I believe that NE was hampered by their receivers. (team sport, remember)
2. Ariz is on the list. Carson Palmer had a better year in some respects than I thought. INTs were the problem.
3. Cin is on the list. IMO, Dalton (and maybe Cutler) is the opposite of Brady in this analysis. He is elevated by his receivers.
The rest of the QBs are Manning, Brees, Stafford, Rivers, Cutler, Rodgers, Foles, Roethlisberger, and Romo.
Those are all QBs that I rank above Wilson, Kaep, and Newton. BTW, all of those teams threw more TD passes than Seattle also.
No one is arguing he has reached elite level yet...for the most part no one argues with your general assessment of Tannehill.
The debate is you seem to be in some delusional world where a QB is not affected by his surrounding cast....or even that having a great....Top ranked defense helps a QB like Wilson, for example......win more games than a QB without that quality around him.
That my friend is not weak argument....it is plain fact that even a non football fan can understand logically.
You however don't....so one can only assume 1 of 2 things regarding your irrational arguments.
You either are extremely ignorant....Which I don't believe....or,
You are a Dolphin hater who enjoys agitating here.
you do it cleverly, so as not to get banned...but your arguments are so irrational often that it betrays what you really are....Not sure why they allow you to diminish the quality of this site?
The debate is you seem to be in some delusional world where a QB is not affected by his surrounding cast....or even that having a great....Top ranked defense helps a QB like Wilson, for example......win more games than a QB without that quality around him.
That my friend is not weak argument....it is plain fact that even a non football fan can understand logically.
You however don't....so one can only assume 1 of 2 things regarding your irrational arguments.
You either are extremely ignorant....Which I don't believe....or,
You are a Dolphin hater who enjoys agitating here.
you do it cleverly, so as not to get banned...but your arguments are so irrational often that it betrays what you really are....Not sure why they allow you to diminish the quality of this site?
You call it whatever you want to....but anyone who argues that supporting cast does not help a QB win games is not dealing in REALITY...... my 6 year old nephew knows that.
If that's over your head maybe you are just ignorant.
Just because it's reality to you, does not make it true reality. You dislike the Dolphins (obviously), and as has been your habit to do for countless years, the very moment someone mentions a Dolphins player very highly, or any jets player, you believe it becomes your mission to make sure to lower expectations on that Dolphins player, or defense that Jets player.
What you believe to be reality and what is true reality are two totally different things that your hatred for the Dolphins will never allow you to see.
While IMO Tannehill is presently a notch down from Wilson, I find these discussions of how team landscapes might have changed with Wilson under center interesting - and actually shudder a little bit thinking what might have been for the Jets.
Let's not forget that Terry Bradway was a huge Wilson champion. Forget Mike Tannenbaum putting them in cap hell by unnecessarily extending a QB at that time with one legitimate, non-assisted winning season in 3; one who statistically even before going totally into the destructo mode, was a bottom 25% league QB; one who when the team was 8-5 in the previous season, 2011, sank to his low water mark, losing to 3 non winning teams when facing them.. putting up a typical 60QBR with 5 TDs and 7 Ints. (losing 6 out of his last 19 games before being put out of his misery)
....Yet, because this sensitive boy was butthurt that Woody Johnson made an unanswered recruiting call to Peyton Manning (and what does that say?), despite being a statistical bottom-feeder and a QB who Mike Westhoff has stated was always along for any postseason ride, not driving any bus, Tannenbaum, stonewalled Bradway about jumping in to draft Wilson, instead, unnecessarily extending buttfumble obviously without talking to Westhoff, arguably the best coach on that team.
So forget the ineptitude of reaching for buttfumble at #5, extending him into team cap hell when if anything he should have been put on notice, the drafting of Gholston, etc., -if for nothing else, the stonewalling of Bradway's urging to draft Wilson, instead standing pat with an almost Rex Grossman clone except for winning 13 games and a division title, a Conference Championship and making it to the Superbowl, Mike Tannenbaum should have been fired for that alone! (FWIW, Tannehill didn't attempt to trade up in the 3rd and drafted Stephen Hill in the 2nd.)
Now an argument can be made that Wilson had better weapons and support which is all true. An other argument can be made that he had Pete Carroll, who as a Jets HC, was one and done in '94 going 6-10 (you know, going the same 6-10 that Rex went in 2012 after he and buttfumble blew the playoffs in 2011). While Pete may have been "2012 Rex-like," in 1994, considering what he's done since at USC (especially considering the QBs he had to work with) and of course most recently with Seattle, a strong argument can be made that in total he's not only better than Philbin but that he's the best HC, maybe even including Weeb, to pass through the Jets portals.
So we can debate whether Tannehill has the native skills to catch and pass Wilson or not, but either way, thank heavens the team that's known for passing on Marino, also let Wilson slip through their inept fingers cuz with him, there was enough there with a decent OL (rated high by PFF and middle of pack by Yahoo) and a good running game to flip that 2013 record of 6-10 to 10-6 despite their clueless OC and HC. I guarantee you Wilson would not have been missing the open man, throwing into triple coverage or orchestrating the first ever "Butt 6."
Let's not forget that Terry Bradway was a huge Wilson champion. Forget Mike Tannenbaum putting them in cap hell by unnecessarily extending a QB at that time with one legitimate, non-assisted winning season in 3; one who statistically even before going totally into the destructo mode, was a bottom 25% league QB; one who when the team was 8-5 in the previous season, 2011, sank to his low water mark, losing to 3 non winning teams when facing them.. putting up a typical 60QBR with 5 TDs and 7 Ints. (losing 6 out of his last 19 games before being put out of his misery)
....Yet, because this sensitive boy was butthurt that Woody Johnson made an unanswered recruiting call to Peyton Manning (and what does that say?), despite being a statistical bottom-feeder and a QB who Mike Westhoff has stated was always along for any postseason ride, not driving any bus, Tannenbaum, stonewalled Bradway about jumping in to draft Wilson, instead, unnecessarily extending buttfumble obviously without talking to Westhoff, arguably the best coach on that team.
So forget the ineptitude of reaching for buttfumble at #5, extending him into team cap hell when if anything he should have been put on notice, the drafting of Gholston, etc., -if for nothing else, the stonewalling of Bradway's urging to draft Wilson, instead standing pat with an almost Rex Grossman clone except for winning 13 games and a division title, a Conference Championship and making it to the Superbowl, Mike Tannenbaum should have been fired for that alone! (FWIW, Tannehill didn't attempt to trade up in the 3rd and drafted Stephen Hill in the 2nd.)
Now an argument can be made that Wilson had better weapons and support which is all true. An other argument can be made that he had Pete Carroll, who as a Jets HC, was one and done in '94 going 6-10 (you know, going the same 6-10 that Rex went in 2012 after he and buttfumble blew the playoffs in 2011). While Pete may have been "2012 Rex-like," in 1994, considering what he's done since at USC (especially considering the QBs he had to work with) and of course most recently with Seattle, a strong argument can be made that in total he's not only better than Philbin but that he's the best HC, maybe even including Weeb, to pass through the Jets portals.
So we can debate whether Tannehill has the native skills to catch and pass Wilson or not, but either way, thank heavens the team that's known for passing on Marino, also let Wilson slip through their inept fingers cuz with him, there was enough there with a decent OL (rated high by PFF and middle of pack by Yahoo) and a good running game to flip that 2013 record of 6-10 to 10-6 despite their clueless OC and HC. I guarantee you Wilson would not have been missing the open man, throwing into triple coverage or orchestrating the first ever "Butt 6."
when did I ever say supporting cast doesn't matter? the fact is he had a good one last year including a very good group to throw to.
keep hurling insults but it doesn't change your weak arguments.
You are a homer, you can't see reality. I dislike Miami but I can see reality, if I thought Ryan was really good last year I'd say so.
why would I want to lower expectations for dolphin players? wouldn't it be better to watch homers overrate their players only top watch them fall on their faces?
I lime you Nick but there isn't a bigger homer on the site so spare me the unbiased talk.
You're confusing the word "homer" with "fanatic" there sparky...see below.
That's what you do, whenever I see a post that mentions how great a Dolphins player could be, or the name of a Jets player, I know that eventually I will see your name responding.
My personal analysis why you do it: Because deep down inside, it really scares you that the Dolphin player may become as good as they predict, or the Jets player as bad, so as I said in another post, you are not only trying to convince Dolphin fans, but you are also trying to convince yourself...As you have continually been doing with Tannehill, even though it is very obvious to everyone that actually watched Miami games (Of which your weren't one of them) last year, Miami's O-line was as bad an O-line as there had been in a long time.
I discuss players realistically. If I feel you guys are overrating a player I say so, I do the same thing w/ the Jets.
I have been on this site for 10 years now, I have been the same poster for 10 years. If I was doing what you say I do b/c I was scared that the player and team would become as good as you think then why hasn't that happened?
You can go through my post history, I always give my honest opinions- whether that means praising or criticizing certain players from both of our teams. The facts are my team has been significantly better than your team so your perception is I bash your team more but your team has deserved to be bashed more. When Miami is consistently good and better than my team I will tip my cap and talk better about them. as it is I don't bash them. I never said they suck or will suck. My point on Ryan was he was mediocre last year while many of you guys are impressed w/ meaningless #s. I judge QBs based on how they help their teams win and what they do in big spots and Ryan failed last year in those departments.
By the way, I don't watch dolphin games as closely as I do Jet games but I do watch the majority of them as long as their isn't a conflict w/ a Jet game I am attending.
All through troll hater-shades.
Why is it another teams "fans" bothers you so much that you feel the need to consistently try to negatively affect their opinion of THEIR team?
Pathetic.
what is pathetic is someone who never contributes to the board all of a sudden following me and hurling childish insults. Grow up.
Think im fair but yes I am not without biases. The key is admitting your faults