Rank Tannehill Among Young QB's?

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Like Big Ben and Tom Brady?

And if it's such a distinct advantage for a QB to have that running game, why are the top ten rushing teams, on average, slightly below the league average for YPA? Why is the great Tom Brady not able to do what Wilson did with a top 10 rushing attack? Brady had a better O-line than Wilson, and when Gronk was healthy, he had better receiving options.

Seriously, do I need to explain every aspect of football to you?

Neither Big Ben or Brady started their careers as run first QBs. Neither has made a living running around. Ben extends plays in and around the pocket. Brady is and always was a pocket passer. That is the point. They play primarily from the pocket.

Different teams have different YPA for several reasons. One is the quality of the QBs themselves. One is the quality of the receivers, another is the style of passing attack. You seem to want to use numbers in isolation to anoint Wilson. Brady had poor receivers and a lot of new receivers and played a scheme that featured much shorter passes.

This is Tom Brady with a running game and good receivers (from 2012):

Tom Brady 401 637 63.0 4827 7.58 34 8 98.7

That's SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTY SEVEN attempts and FOUR THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY SEVEN yards. In addition, the Patriots scored 140 more points in 2012 than Seattle did last season.

Get back to me when Wilson achieves those numbers. That is elite play by the QB (supported by a great supporting cast).

For comparison, this is Wilson under similar circumstances:

Russell Wilson 257 407 63.1 3357 8.25 26 9 101.2

Can you not see the difference? You believe there is really NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE between those performances? Both are elite? Clearly Brady's is better. He is elite. What is Wilson? semi-elte? elite-light? elite-ish? How about very good and very efficient but not ELITE. Here is the definition of elite - the choice or best of anything considered collectively. Clearly if Brady's performance is significantly better, then Wilson's cannot be the best (and therefore not elite).

One final point. I already posted a quote from Donte Whitner where he stated that the key to stopping Seattle was stopping Lynch. Here is quote from 2012 by the 49ers DC about stopping the Patriots:

Is it a dumb question when I ask how do you stop them? Or can you stop them?
"Well, I think anytime you're playing a quarterback of this caliber, the definition of a great quarterback, is there really is no one way to stop them. You can't do the same thing for four quarters and expect to slow him down. This is I believe his 12th year starting in this system. He knows how people try and defense this system, how they try and defense him. And there is no one way to defend Brady, which to me is the definition of a great quarterback. Do you want to pressure him some? Yeah. Do you want to cover him some? Yes. Do you want to rush three? Yes. Do you want to rush five, six? Yes. You've got to do a little bit of everything, man, zone, because he's really good."

Not one mention of the Patriots running game that was very effective in 2012. The difference is that the Patriots running game is effective (at least partially) because defenses are focused on stopping the passing game. It is the exact opposite of how teams have prepared for Seattle.

 

[PhinFan1968]

This is where you're wrong. My "rankings" are "meaningless" to you. Again you say I don't get it. What you mean to say is I don't agree with your view.

So you're telling me Lamar Miller could've posted similar stats to Marshawn Lynch's had they ran as much? As if there's a way to even say that with a straight face. Your playoffs comment is also something that cannot ever be proved which is typical of your views. Passed off as reality yet aren't things that can ever be determined as correct or not b/c it's all hyperbole.

Two words dude...Jets Fan.

 

[nyjunc]

This is where you're wrong. My "rankings" are "meaningless" to you. Again you say I don't get it. What you mean to say is I don't agree with your view.

So you're telling me Lamar Miller could've posted similar stats to Marshawn Lynch's had they ran as much? As if there's a way to even say that with a straight face. Your playoffs comment is also something that cannot ever be proved which is typical of your views. Passed off as reality yet aren't things that can ever be determined as correct or not b/c it's all hyperbole.

Miller absolutely could have put up similar #s to Lynch, doesn't mean he is as good but #s wise he had a similar average and you abandoned the run.

It can be proven, Ryan plays better in one of the losses and turns it into a win and Miami is in.

 

[BlueFin]

Miller absolutely could have put up similar #s to Lynch, doesn't mean he is as good but #s wise he had a similar average and you abandoned the run.

It can be proven, Ryan plays better in one of the losses and turns it into a win and Miami is in.

No one is arguing the Jets game or that a win there let's a flawed football team slip into the wildcard round...we also could have lost several games that Ryan helped us win.

Net result.....a .500 team which is about all this was good enough to be.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Miller absolutely could have put up similar #s to Lynch, doesn't mean he is as good but #s wise he had a similar average and you abandoned the run.

It can be proven, Ryan plays better in one of the losses and turns it into a win and Miami is in.

If any player from any losing team could've played better they'd have a chance to win. Awful argument btw.

It's funny that you think Lamar Miller could've ran for 550 more yards based on his average. Those are hypotheses that predict what he could do had his average stayed the same but again that isn't reality. It's a prediction of something that didn't happen. Another point you bring up that can't be proven.

Answer me this, if Lamar Miller is potentially as good Marshawn Lynch (who had 406 more yards than Miller in his own rookie year. Yes he ran the ball more), why did Daniel Thomas run the ball 109 times? Why sign Knowshon Moreno is Lamar Miller is potentially as good as Lynch?

 

[nyjunc]

No one is arguing the Jets game or that a win there let's a flawed football team slip into the wildcard round...we also could have lost several games that Ryan helped us win.

Net result.....a .500 team which is about all this was good enough to be.

and you could have lost more that he didn't help where the D carried him and the O.

If any player from any losing team could've played better they'd have a chance to win. Awful argument btw.

It's funny that you think Lamar Miller could've ran for 550 more yards based on his average. Those are hypotheses that predict what he could do had his average stayed the same but again that isn't reality. It's a prediction of something that didn't happen. Another point you bring up that can't be proven.

Answer me this, if Lamar Miller is potentially as good Marshawn Lynch (who had 406 more yards than Miller in his own rookie year. Yes he ran the ball more), why did Daniel Thomas run the ball 109 times? Why sign Knowshon Moreno is Lamar Miller is potentially as good as Lynch?

I never said as good, I said similar #s. similar #s doesn't make a player as good. That's what some of you guys fail to understand, #s tell art of the story. The point is you had the ability to run, the run game won the game at Pitt and could have kept you in or won more games but you abandoned it and trusted a QB not ready to be trusted.

 

[BlueFin]

60 pages of trolls trying to sell that Miami had a defense that won games for Tannehill like the Seahawks D won a Super bowl for Wilson....trying to sell that Miami had an O-line and running backs that run blocked and pass protected as well as Seattle's............

I wasn't aware Seattle was so bad they were replacing their entire O-line....wasn't aware they were reshuffling their entire linebacking Corp. To help with bad run stopping?

Is anybody credible buying this psychobabble?

None of the mainstream football world is.......

So who is really full of it here?

The overwhelming majority....or a New York Jet troll?

It's really getting comical watching Junc sling Junk.

 

[DuderinoN703]

I never said as good, I said similar #s. similar #s doesn't make a player as good. That's what some of you guys fail to understand, #s tell art of the story. The point is you had the ability to run, the run game won the game at Pitt and could have kept you in or won more games but you abandoned it and trusted a QB not ready to be trusted.

Why be so ****ing nitpicky? Similar numbers but not as good. If they finished with the same numbers why would Miller not be as good?

Run game won the Steelers game huh? I'd say it was the 12 yd TD pass to Charles Clay that did the trick. That and Tannehill's 3 TDs.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Seriously, do I need to explain every aspect of football to you?

Neither Big Ben or Brady started their careers as run first QBs. Neither has made a living running around. Ben extends plays in and around the pocket. Brady is and always was a pocket passer. That is the point. They play primarily from the pocket.

Different teams have different YPA for several reasons. One is the quality of the QBs themselves. One is the quality of the receivers, another is the style of passing attack. You seem to want to use numbers in isolation to anoint Wilson. Brady had poor receivers and a lot of new receivers and played a scheme that featured much shorter passes.

This is Tom Brady with a running game and good receivers (from 2012):

Tom Brady 401 637 63.0 4827 7.58 34 8 98.7

That's SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTY SEVEN attempts and FOUR THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY SEVEN yards. In addition, the Patriots scored 140 more points in 2012 than Seattle did last season.

Get back to me when Wilson achieves those numbers. That is elite play by the QB (supported by a great supporting cast).

For comparison, this is Wilson under similar circumstances:

Russell Wilson 257 407 63.1 3357 8.25 26 9 101.2

Can you not see the difference? You believe there is really NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE between those performances? Both are elite? Clearly Brady's is better. He is elite. What is Wilson? semi-elte? elite-light? elite-ish? How about very good and very efficient but not ELITE. Here is the definition of elite - the choice or best of anything considered collectively. Clearly if Brady's performance is significantly better, then Wilson's cannot be the best (and therefore not elite).

One final point. I already posted a quote from Donte Whitner where he stated that the key to stopping Seattle was stopping Lynch. Here is quote from 2012 by the 49ers DC about stopping the Patriots:



Not one mention of the Patriots running game that was very effective in 2012. The difference is that the Patriots running game is effective (at least partially) because defenses are focused on stopping the passing game. It is the exact opposite of how teams have prepared for Seattle.

Again, why would he care to achieve those numbers when they are LESS EFFICIENT and his team's current formula for success is the best in the NFL? You're contentions have ZERO merit. He was on a GREAT team. We've established that, but he was a great player on that great team. You can't realistically ask a QB to be more efficient than Wilson has been. I'm not saying he's a finished product. He has room to grow, but he is already playing at an elite level. Wilson played great in both the NFC Championship game and the SB. Absent of a team defensive award, Wilson deserved the MVP. In three of his five career playoff games, he's had a rating over 100, and a YPA over 8. His 4th best playoff game (statistically), which was his first career playoff game, he still played well with a rating of 93 and a YPA of 7.2. One of those games, btw, was the game against Atlanta, where Seattle almost came back. In that game, he threw the ball 36 times, completing 24 of those attempts for 385 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT. That's a QBR of 109 and a YPA of 10.7.

Wilson's attempts are also skewed by Seattle's early success in games. They do emphasize the running game, but often by the 2nd half, Seattle isn't as interesting in scoring 50 points as they are grinding out drives, with efficient offense, and letting the D hold leads. This is often the point where Seattle will run away from teams. Seattle completed 52 passes of 20 yards or longer and 10 of 40 or longer. Those totals are good for 13th and tied for 10th in the NFL.

This is a guy that makes big plays with his arm on a consistent basis. The issues your are having with his limited pass attempts are YOUR issue.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Again, why would he care to achieve those numbers when they are LESS EFFICIENT and his team's current formula for success is the best in the NFL? You're contentions have ZERO merit. He was on a GREAT team. We've established that, but he was a great player on that great team. You can't realistically ask a QB to be more efficient than Wilson has been. I'm not saying he's a finished product. He has room to grow, but he is already playing at an elite level. Wilson played great in both the NFC Championship game and the SB. Absent of a team defensive award, Wilson deserved the MVP. In three of his five career playoff games, he's had a rating over 100, and a YPA over 8. His 4th best playoff game (statistically), which was his first career playoff game, he still played well with a rating of 93 and a YPA of 7.2. One of those games, btw, was the game against Atlanta, where Seattle almost came back. In that game, he threw the ball 36 times, completing 24 of those attempts for 385 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT. That's a QBR of 109 and a YPA of 10.7.

Wilson's attempts are also skewed by Seattle's early success in games. They do emphasize the running game, but often by the 2nd half, Seattle isn't as interesting in scoring 50 points as they are grinding out drives, with efficient offense, and letting the D hold leads. This is often the point where Seattle will run away from teams. Seattle completed 52 passes of 20 yards or longer and 10 of 40 or longer. Those totals are good for 13th and tied for 10th in the NFL.

This is a guy that makes big plays with his arm on a consistent basis. The issues your are having with his limited pass attempts are YOUR issue.

Now Seattle is purposely holding back... Sure scoring an additional 10 points per game is a complete waste of effort.... Where do you come up with this crap?


Efficient because (in part) defenses focused on the running game. Efficient not elite. It as simply as that. Get over it and get back to me when his defense and running game aren't carrying the bulk of the load.

 

[nick1]

The season can't come soon enough

 

[nick1]

Jaws said foles over Wilson and its not close. sounds like he recognizes a game manager when he sees one.

“I’m taking Foles,” Jaworski said.  “Not even close.  Russell Wilson is just . . . because of that system he is in.  Russell Wilson plays with that defense, the best in football.  He just managed the game very well.  I think Russell Wilson has played terrific, a great maturity, but I’m going to take Nick Foles.”

 

[roy_miami]

Jaws said foles over Wilson and its not close. sounds like he recognizes a game manager when he sees one.

Throw Tannehill's name in there, the over under on the time he stops laughing: 10 minutes.

Foles vs Wilson vs Luck is at least worthy of a discussion.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Throw Tannehill's name in there, the over under on the time he stops laughing: 10 minutes.

Foles vs Wilson vs Luck is at least worthy of a discussion.

Luck can't be. I read that only fanboys compare QBs with an 81 QBR to QBs with 100+ QBRs.....

 

[PhinFan1968]

Throw Tannehill's name in there, the over under on the time he stops laughing: 10 minutes.

Foles vs Wilson vs Luck is at least worthy of a discussion.

Jaws recently went on record saying Tannehill had top 10 talent at QB.

Edit: He even went on to imply the team's offense has held him back. Sounds kinda familiar.