iceblizzard69
☠️ Banned ☠️
I don't know why people thought all those picks and money was worth it for Gruden. He is a very good coach but Tampa Bay gave too much and I always thought that they did.
Ricky versus Duece
- Thread starter PhinKev
- Start date
There are lies...damned lies...and statistics
You know what guys, Deuce McCallister has a chance to be a top five running back in this league, and the truth is that if he was a Dolphin, most of us would freely admit that.
As I have said before, the main thing is that the Phins have their best running back in 25 years, and we are all happy. The Saints have Deuce and they are happy. Its that simple. Do we really have to compare respective stats every week of this season? Lets worry about the Saints if we see them in the superbowl.
___________________
Do or do not.......there is no try
You know what guys, Deuce McCallister has a chance to be a top five running back in this league, and the truth is that if he was a Dolphin, most of us would freely admit that.
As I have said before, the main thing is that the Phins have their best running back in 25 years, and we are all happy. The Saints have Deuce and they are happy. Its that simple. Do we really have to compare respective stats every week of this season? Lets worry about the Saints if we see them in the superbowl.
___________________
Do or do not.......there is no try
ckparrothead
Premium Member
The one point that phinstd brought up that I would harp on most is the fact that Deuce did get 31 carries.
Yes, the Detroit defense is significantly worst than the Bucs defense (though the comparison isn't as unfavorable as SOME would like to think if you isolate just RUN DEFENSE).
Yes, the Buccaneers defense is rather smallish. Their MLB Shelton Quarles is a schrimp, everyone knows it, everyone admits it. Their D is built the same way Miami's is. Two big DTs surrounded by five undersized speedsters. This is not even a matter up for question. Give it up.
So overall, 31 carries for 109 yards vs 20 carries for 111 yards and 2 TDs...WHATEVER. Don't compare those, cuz it doesn't matter. Though I agree that we will see what happens when Deuce faces the rudderless Detroit D (of course if he does worst I'm sure Brad will make it a point to come on here and say that the Detroit D that the Saints faced was much better than the one the Phins faced, for some reason or other...bank on it). I say do not compare them cuz its not a good comparison.
DEUCE DID WELL! He surprised people with his durability. He gained good hard yardage against a tough D. RICKY DID WELL. He surprised people with his outside speed. Both backs surprised in areas that were SUPPOSED to be their weakness.
But the only thing that I'LL say is, why is it that Deuce McAllister is getting 31 carries in a game? Of course the easy answer from a Saints homer is that Deuce is just THAT GOOD, and you have no idea why anyone questioned his durability in the first place. WRONG, sorry but thats not acceptable. Because, though certain Saints fans will try their best to convince everyone that Ricky was a talentless weirdo with small hands, nobody involved in the process denied that Ricky Williams is a very talented back. When Jim Haslett explained his move he didn't deny that Williams was a good back. Remember that the BOTTOM LINE was that it took 1st and 2nd round picks to pry Ricky Williams away from Jim Haslett...whilst SOME people would have us all believe that Jim wanted to just GIVE Ricky away cuz Deuce is so ooobviously the superior back. Remember Jim's explanation of why the Saints will be ok without Ricky? Ricky's a good back, but it takes 25-30 carries a game for him to do his damage (very true, please see his yards per carry from carries 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, and 21-25 as his ypc increases in each range). Deuce can do his damage without getting as many carries (ie he's faster and will break the big one). In other words Deuce is the more friendly back for an offense built around Aaron Brooks...an offense of speed. Not a caretaker QB offense...an offense of power, featuring the likes of "scrub" (according to Brooks) Jay Fiedler.
If I were a Saints fan I'd be happy with the win. Happy that the coaches did what they needed to do in order to get the win. But if Deuce continues to see 25-30 carries a game, I would openly question Haslett's thinking for getting rid of Ricky Williams. Because the bottom line is if you asked NFL pundits what back they would rather have to pound the ball for you 25-30+ times a game I would guarantee you that all but one would pick Ricky Williams over Deuce McAllister (there's ALWAYS one oddball). So it might be time to start questioning if Aaron Brooks is really worthy of having the offense built around him, or if rather the most effective way of winning might in fact be to take a little bit of the responsibility out of Brooks' hands and give him a guy that can take 25-30 carries a game and keep the offense running.
Thats my thoughts
Yes, the Detroit defense is significantly worst than the Bucs defense (though the comparison isn't as unfavorable as SOME would like to think if you isolate just RUN DEFENSE).
Yes, the Buccaneers defense is rather smallish. Their MLB Shelton Quarles is a schrimp, everyone knows it, everyone admits it. Their D is built the same way Miami's is. Two big DTs surrounded by five undersized speedsters. This is not even a matter up for question. Give it up.
So overall, 31 carries for 109 yards vs 20 carries for 111 yards and 2 TDs...WHATEVER. Don't compare those, cuz it doesn't matter. Though I agree that we will see what happens when Deuce faces the rudderless Detroit D (of course if he does worst I'm sure Brad will make it a point to come on here and say that the Detroit D that the Saints faced was much better than the one the Phins faced, for some reason or other...bank on it). I say do not compare them cuz its not a good comparison.
DEUCE DID WELL! He surprised people with his durability. He gained good hard yardage against a tough D. RICKY DID WELL. He surprised people with his outside speed. Both backs surprised in areas that were SUPPOSED to be their weakness.
But the only thing that I'LL say is, why is it that Deuce McAllister is getting 31 carries in a game? Of course the easy answer from a Saints homer is that Deuce is just THAT GOOD, and you have no idea why anyone questioned his durability in the first place. WRONG, sorry but thats not acceptable. Because, though certain Saints fans will try their best to convince everyone that Ricky was a talentless weirdo with small hands, nobody involved in the process denied that Ricky Williams is a very talented back. When Jim Haslett explained his move he didn't deny that Williams was a good back. Remember that the BOTTOM LINE was that it took 1st and 2nd round picks to pry Ricky Williams away from Jim Haslett...whilst SOME people would have us all believe that Jim wanted to just GIVE Ricky away cuz Deuce is so ooobviously the superior back. Remember Jim's explanation of why the Saints will be ok without Ricky? Ricky's a good back, but it takes 25-30 carries a game for him to do his damage (very true, please see his yards per carry from carries 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, and 21-25 as his ypc increases in each range). Deuce can do his damage without getting as many carries (ie he's faster and will break the big one). In other words Deuce is the more friendly back for an offense built around Aaron Brooks...an offense of speed. Not a caretaker QB offense...an offense of power, featuring the likes of "scrub" (according to Brooks) Jay Fiedler.
If I were a Saints fan I'd be happy with the win. Happy that the coaches did what they needed to do in order to get the win. But if Deuce continues to see 25-30 carries a game, I would openly question Haslett's thinking for getting rid of Ricky Williams. Because the bottom line is if you asked NFL pundits what back they would rather have to pound the ball for you 25-30+ times a game I would guarantee you that all but one would pick Ricky Williams over Deuce McAllister (there's ALWAYS one oddball). So it might be time to start questioning if Aaron Brooks is really worthy of having the offense built around him, or if rather the most effective way of winning might in fact be to take a little bit of the responsibility out of Brooks' hands and give him a guy that can take 25-30 carries a game and keep the offense running.
Thats my thoughts
Saint Greg
Pro Bowler
ckparrothead-
Are you saying Brooks didn't have a good game? He had a great game...even saints fans that criticized him said he earned his money yesterday. He had a great completion percentage on 3rd down....and his only INT wasn't his fault.....his arm was hit while he was throwing. Brooks looked good yesterday....better than i expected. Even I started Bledsoe over Brooks in my fantasy league....i should've started Brooks.
Are you saying Brooks didn't have a good game? He had a great game...even saints fans that criticized him said he earned his money yesterday. He had a great completion percentage on 3rd down....and his only INT wasn't his fault.....his arm was hit while he was throwing. Brooks looked good yesterday....better than i expected. Even I started Bledsoe over Brooks in my fantasy league....i should've started Brooks.
akfinfan
FinHeaven VIP
Re: Re: Re: Ricky versus Duece
your right, Miami is so good that they didn't even need Ricky in the 4th Quarter. **** if we are that good every week, I say take his ass out of the game for the whole second half, and you will never come close to seeing that first round pick you speak of. As long as we are winning I could care less if Ricky has 1000 or 1500 yards. Fact is we will have a better record than your Saints(who have only won 1 playoff game....ever) by seasons end.
your right, Miami is so good that they didn't even need Ricky in the 4th Quarter. **** if we are that good every week, I say take his ass out of the game for the whole second half, and you will never come close to seeing that first round pick you speak of. As long as we are winning I could care less if Ricky has 1000 or 1500 yards. Fact is we will have a better record than your Saints(who have only won 1 playoff game....ever) by seasons end.
IceStorm
The High Tech Bong Monkey!
You know what boys, I'm rather bored about talking about what has already happened. It's over, we can't change that. You want stats? Fine, go get stats. The Dolphins won.
This Sunday we play the Indianapolis Colts. We all know they're a decent team that can give us a run. It should be a good game. That hasn't happened yet. Lets move on. Sheesh. :D :)
This Sunday we play the Indianapolis Colts. We all know they're a decent team that can give us a run. It should be a good game. That hasn't happened yet. Lets move on. Sheesh. :D :)
Saint Greg
Pro Bowler
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ricky versus Duece
Boy someone has a big head....remember..you played a team that won 2 games last year. Miami is so good.....or Detroit is so bad? You're going to need ricky in the 2nd half of some of your games....believe me.....you don't exactly have Kurt Warner at QB.
Boy someone has a big head....remember..you played a team that won 2 games last year. Miami is so good.....or Detroit is so bad? You're going to need ricky in the 2nd half of some of your games....believe me.....you don't exactly have Kurt Warner at QB.
poornate
We may die, but our actions are immortal
Greg, i guess that's round one of the Ricky/Deuce debate. What were deuces final numbers? Just asking, no smack.
inFINSible
Don't believe everything you think.
All you people who don't want to hear this anymore.....stop reading this thread......DUH!!!
PhinKev
Pro Bowler
CK,
Very well written and thoughtful post. You have said it all very very well.
I'm still waiting for the answer Saint fans. At 30+ carries a game is Duece the guy? Do you really think Duece can handle that?
Just curious.
Very well written and thoughtful post. You have said it all very very well.
I'm still waiting for the answer Saint fans. At 30+ carries a game is Duece the guy? Do you really think Duece can handle that?
Just curious.
Deuce did most of his running up the middle against Tampa, straight at Sapp and McFarland. He knocked Lynch out of the game in a HUGE collision you could hear at home, then hopped up and ran again.
Ricky played awesome as well. That's fine. 111 yards each week would give us that first rounder easily. I'm happy.
Seriously, how can you compare one of the best overall defenses in the NFL to one of the worst overall? I'm not saying Deuce is better than Ricky, but I am saying that you people are overreacting, grasping at straws in a sad attempt to make us look bad to appease your pathetic Brooksian egos.
I like Ricky. I like Deuce. Ricky played three quarters against a team that is 2-15 since the beginning of last season, and Deuce played five quarters against a team that has been the NFC's version of the Dolphins for years now...strong D and getting knocked out of the playoffs annually.
Sure, Deuce said he didn't know if he could play another series. That's after taking hit after hit straight up the guy of the Buccaneer defense, slipping out of tackles and smacking people (did I mention him knocking John Lynch out of the game before halftime???:D). But is that any different from when Ricky begged Haslett not to run him too much in 2000 when he'd carried the ball 30-something times against the then-pathetic Falcons???
Can Deuce carry the ball 31 times a week, running up the gut against one of the best defenses in the NFL? Probably not. But he isn't going to play against the Bucs every week.
And Ricky isn't going up against the Lions every week, either.
That is all.
Ricky played awesome as well. That's fine. 111 yards each week would give us that first rounder easily. I'm happy.
Seriously, how can you compare one of the best overall defenses in the NFL to one of the worst overall? I'm not saying Deuce is better than Ricky, but I am saying that you people are overreacting, grasping at straws in a sad attempt to make us look bad to appease your pathetic Brooksian egos.
I like Ricky. I like Deuce. Ricky played three quarters against a team that is 2-15 since the beginning of last season, and Deuce played five quarters against a team that has been the NFC's version of the Dolphins for years now...strong D and getting knocked out of the playoffs annually.
Sure, Deuce said he didn't know if he could play another series. That's after taking hit after hit straight up the guy of the Buccaneer defense, slipping out of tackles and smacking people (did I mention him knocking John Lynch out of the game before halftime???:D). But is that any different from when Ricky begged Haslett not to run him too much in 2000 when he'd carried the ball 30-something times against the then-pathetic Falcons???
Can Deuce carry the ball 31 times a week, running up the gut against one of the best defenses in the NFL? Probably not. But he isn't going to play against the Bucs every week.
And Ricky isn't going up against the Lions every week, either.
That is all.
saintsalive
Practice Squad
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Here's hoping Ricky gets 111 in 3 quarters every game.
Really.
I would be completely stoked for both RIcky and Deuce to get their 100 (no matter how many carries it takes) each week. Shoot, I dont care if Deuce runs for 55/game if we can move the chains like we did v. Tampa.
Especially when you dig a little deeper and see that Charles Grant had a sack, along with several pressures in our merciless beating of Brad Johnson.
Run Ricky Run.
Really.
I would be completely stoked for both RIcky and Deuce to get their 100 (no matter how many carries it takes) each week. Shoot, I dont care if Deuce runs for 55/game if we can move the chains like we did v. Tampa.
Especially when you dig a little deeper and see that Charles Grant had a sack, along with several pressures in our merciless beating of Brad Johnson.
Run Ricky Run.
saintsalive
Practice Squad
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I think most folks would like a back that can break the long one, and also carry 25-30 times a game. Is that Ricky or Deuce? Or both?
This debate will stretch out for years (hopefully).
dolphan39
Maria & LauRen Aha!
I do not want anything, but Ricky right now. Deuce could win NFL MVP and be the new Faulk all that would mean is that maybe, just maybe Miami gave NO a little too much for Ricky. As long as RW is getting 1st downs and TDs, it can be for 2 yards or 37 yards.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Saintsalive, you are correct. Coaches all would like a back that can carry the load with 30+ carries, stay healthy, and still break off homeruns in his first 10 carries of the game. But I guess they can't ALL be Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, etc.
As I said before I wouldn't put too much stock in a yardage or ypc comparison. Every team is different and every week is different. I will merely say this...
1. Deuce getting 31 carries in a game is not something that should be strived for...and even if Brooks DID have a good game, the offensive coordinator still felt that the best way to win the game was to take the game out of Brooks' hands and put the hands of a runningback that the head coach very loudly proclaimed should be able to do his damage in 20-25 touches a game. If you're averaging 25-30+ carries a game, would you rather have Ricky or Deuce?
2. The obvious answer to that is Ricky. But that does not make the trade a bad move on the Saints part (or the Phins...) Why? Because what a LOT of Saints fans seem to forget is that the price of getting Jim Haslett to part ways with Ricky Williams, was NOT ZERO. It was 1st and 2nd round picks! This is a rather steep price, and if we did not pay it, they would not have done it. SO basically the Saints said it is only worth it to dump Ricky and feature Deuce, if they can get 1st and 2nd round picks in exchange.
3. Though I'm the first to say don't compare the damage the two did against their respective oppositions, some of ya'll are taking this Detroit vs Tampa defense thing WAY too seriously. If someone could please find individual defense stats from 2001 that would help. All I can find is Total D but lets put it this way. Last year Tampa's D averaged 290 yards let up. Detroit's D averaged 350 yards let up. An average of 60 yards per game. And I know that most of those 60 yards per game were passing yards per game. So if you ARE going to delve into a comparison of Deuce vs Tampa against Ricky vs Detroit, please do keep in mind that the difference in rush D between the two teams is not THAT INCREDIBLY BIG, that Ricky did an average job while Deuce did a superb job....
As I said before I wouldn't put too much stock in a yardage or ypc comparison. Every team is different and every week is different. I will merely say this...
1. Deuce getting 31 carries in a game is not something that should be strived for...and even if Brooks DID have a good game, the offensive coordinator still felt that the best way to win the game was to take the game out of Brooks' hands and put the hands of a runningback that the head coach very loudly proclaimed should be able to do his damage in 20-25 touches a game. If you're averaging 25-30+ carries a game, would you rather have Ricky or Deuce?
2. The obvious answer to that is Ricky. But that does not make the trade a bad move on the Saints part (or the Phins...) Why? Because what a LOT of Saints fans seem to forget is that the price of getting Jim Haslett to part ways with Ricky Williams, was NOT ZERO. It was 1st and 2nd round picks! This is a rather steep price, and if we did not pay it, they would not have done it. SO basically the Saints said it is only worth it to dump Ricky and feature Deuce, if they can get 1st and 2nd round picks in exchange.
3. Though I'm the first to say don't compare the damage the two did against their respective oppositions, some of ya'll are taking this Detroit vs Tampa defense thing WAY too seriously. If someone could please find individual defense stats from 2001 that would help. All I can find is Total D but lets put it this way. Last year Tampa's D averaged 290 yards let up. Detroit's D averaged 350 yards let up. An average of 60 yards per game. And I know that most of those 60 yards per game were passing yards per game. So if you ARE going to delve into a comparison of Deuce vs Tampa against Ricky vs Detroit, please do keep in mind that the difference in rush D between the two teams is not THAT INCREDIBLY BIG, that Ricky did an average job while Deuce did a superb job....