Ricky versus Duece

[inFINSible]

Originally posted by UNOPrivatr
I personally don't think Ricky has a "fumble problem." As mentioned, he fumbles in spurts which is costly. You can't overcome your feature back coughing it up three times in a game. Fortunately, that doesn't happen very often with Ricky.

My point about the fumbles against the 49ers weren't a knock on Ricky. It was just to destroy the opinion from chambers that we stopped giving Ricky the ball down the stretch to avoid him reaching incentives. That's outrageous if you actually watched those games.

By the way, chambers...I'm a huge UW Badger fan and have been following Chris Chambers since college. He's one of my favorite players and I hope he has another great year for you guys. The Saints were actually set to draft him last year but while we were on the phone with him informing him we were taking him, the Dolphins made the trade up and snagged him. I was so dissapointed!!

Anyway...good luck.

my last post wasn't directed at you either.....I understand why you brought it up.....but even last year.....the last game was the only one where he fumbled more than once.......So maybe i'm just being optimistic.... but.... it looks like he has LEARNED to hold onto the ball better.....

 

[RaptorBpW]

Nice post. We never delved into personal team attacks. As for "Ricki"...well, I don't watch daytime TV, so I don't know who the heck you're talking about.

Let's not forget something: AB threw the ball 42 times. The coaching staff didn't take the ball out of his hands. AB passed 42 times, Deuce ran 31 times. Got that? 42 is more than 31...

We played a 5-quarter game, and we had nearly FIFTY (in other terms, 50) minutes of time of possession. 73 plays just between Deuce and Brooks.

Ricky is a solid back. So is Deuce. They have strengths and weaknesses. Why is it that you people have to keep rehashing this old debate? (Which, I might add, has been debated and re-debated and smashed into a bloody pulp by us Saints fans for years now).

 

[saintsalive]

Originally posted by inFINSible


If you subtract the last game, last season....he had 5 fumbles on the year.....a remarkable improvement over his first two seasons and out of the top ten backs in the league Ricky was middle of the pack..... ( I didn't use the 16 th game for any of these backs)
L. tomlinson 8
Stephen Davis 6
Ahman Green 5
Corey Dillon 5
Ricky Williams 5
Shaun Alexander 4
Priest Holmes 4
Marshall Faulk 3
C. Martin 2
Anthony Thomas 0 (!)

My point is.....Ricky improved LAST YEAR, with his fumbling problem, yet no Saint Fan is giving him credit for that.....All we hear is how he fumbles too much.....understanding that the last time you saw him he was putting the ball on the ground all over the place......but, wouldn't you say that he improved greatly up until that point? As you can see.....5 fumbles in 15 games puts him on par with Corey Dillon and Ahman Green..and better than Stephen Davis and LaDainian Tomlinson.....Why is it we never hear about any of their fumbling problems?....

because it's just disgruntled Saints' fans with an axe to grind.....not wanting to give credit where credit is due.

( Please don't take this as a shot at you.....it has just been a common theme from your cohorts)

Well, yes, if you throw out his worst game, his numbers look better.

But, anyway, you must admit, its somewhat amazing that you can eliminate 3 fumbles from his total (more than Curtis Martin had ALL YEAR), and he's still tied for 3rd among those backs listed!

In any given year, you can expect Ricky to have one fumble for every 2 games played. Any way you slice it, that's a lot of loose footballs.

This wouldn't have been such a big deal in NOLA if he hadnt had so few TDs, relatively speaking.

He's off to a great start, so maybe his fumbling is behind him. But, like I said, watch closely the end of his runs, especially when he has someone hanging on his arms/shoulders - the ball seems to be on the verge of squirting out a lot. (Note: this is more my subjective opinion than anything, but I've watched every pro game he played from 99-01.)


And, finally, to CrazyDolfan35: "Ricki" is a girl's name.

 

[Postalsaint]

Ricky wanted out of New Orleans.

Originally posted by inFINSible


But what I want to know is your opinion.....Do you think the final game where he fumbled three times should be looked at with a smirk, considering the circumstances of the game? i.e; His head was not there.

There is no question in my mind that Ricky(he was not the only one) quit on the team after the Saints got eliminated from the playoffs. Why is Ricky so bitter towards the Saints? I'd say his contract and the Saints drafting Duece were 2 reasons. If Ricky had hired a real agent the contract he signed wouldn't have happened. So he has nobody to blame but himself for that. I do believe the main reason the Saints refused to renegotiate was because they had every intention of trading Ricky anyway. They didn't trade him in 2001 because it would have been to big a hit on the cap. Then you add to it the Saints drafting Duece. Ricky took that as a slap in the face.

Bill Parcells made a good point on ESPN Countdown last Sunday. Ricky Williams was Mike Ditka's guy. Duece McAllister is Jim Haslett's guy and there is nothing wrong with that.

Did the Dolphins give up to much to get him? HELL NO!!!

Ricky is still young. He has his whole career ahead of him. The Dolphins basically gave up a 1st and a 3rd round pick to get him. The teams swapped 4th rounders this year. That is a very reasonable price for a young, proven, "Franchise Back".

 

[RaptorBpW]

You want me to be honest? Sure. I'll admit that I'd rather have a big, mashing HB who beats defenses into submission. I like yall's offense.

But Ricky was so freakin' WEIRD here. That wasn't just media hype; the dude was always doing something freaky. He earned $250,000 in fines last season (see SportsLine.com...or was it TSN...?)! I'm glad he's gone, and it has NOTHING to do with his play on the field, which was good. I don't care about long runs, although I like 'em when they happen. I like 4 and 5 yards each carry. But this is stupid. Ricky will have great games, so will Deuce. Deuce will have bad games, so will Ricky. Neither of them is God.

Take it from me.

Just GIVE IT UP already!

 

[Saint Greg]

Originally posted by saintsalive


OK - but my source was the NFL - (check the link in my post) who's your source?

Mine is a fantasy football magazine.

 

[Saint Greg]

Re: Ricky wanted out of New Orleans.

Originally posted by Postalsaint


Why is Ricky so bitter towards the Saints? I'd say his contract and the Saints drafting Duece were 2 reasons

Like you said....the contract was his own fault....but so was the drafting of Deuce. Ricky began the offseason by bashing the city of N.O. Then he skipped offseason workouts and threatened to pursue a career in baseball. The Saints were forced to draft Deuce to cover their butt.

 

[themole]

Raptor: I can appreciate all that you have said and it's an argument that can't be settled until the season is over, the one thing that rubs me wrong is your statement " Just give it up AREADY!" remember, YOU, ARE IN OUR HOUSE! RUN RICKY RUN

 

[inFINSible]

I too think that both teams will get great benefits from this trade and trying to decide who is the better back is only something that may or may not become clear over time. I just wanted to hear from knowlegdable fans, who are giving honest opinions and not just smack. Thanks and good luck.

 

[ckparrothead]

My point with the 31 carries in a game thing is that if Deuce continues to be relied upon like that, I'll be laughing my @ss off as he hits the training room with injuries. Not laughing at Deuce, he is what he is. Laughing at Haslett for saying one thing then doing another and paying the price for the discrepancy.

Still even if you compare the conservative run defense numbers between Tampa and Detroit, the difference is merely 27 yards (or 19 yards depending on whose numbers you believe). Ricky got 111 yards on just 20 carries and only had 4 carries in the 2nd half. In his relief, Travis Minor had 11 runs for 45 yards and Robert Edwards had 4 runs for 20 yards and a rushing TD. Even if you just take THEIR results, and suppose to yourself that Ricky were he still in the game could have reproduced their success exactly (indeed I think its far more likely that Ricky would have done BETTER than those two, given Ricky's career history of having an increasing ypc with every additional carry), then you come up with a pretty reasonable (and conservative) projection for Ricky of 35 carries for 176 yards. And I'm sorry but the difference between the Bucs run D and the Lions run D last year, was not 65 yards...it was 27 (or 19).

So some dumb mofo coming on here and saying "I'll easily take 31 carries for 109 yards against the BUCS over what Ricky did against the LIONS anyday" is really a pretty ignorant statement. Easily as ignorant as some of the more homeristic Miami comments that we've made.

Ricky and Deuce will be linked for a while lets face it. Haslett dumped Deuce for Ricky and now the merits of that action will be reviewed over and over again for quite a while. I don't doubt Deuces talent (anymore), though I do still have my doubts about his career longevity and durability. What I doubt, are Haslett's reasons for dumping Ricky.

 

[RaptorBpW]

Check that article on ESPN.com in which Ricky explains what he did and why he was wrong.

And Haslett didn't "dump" Ricky. Give me a break. We traded him for a first round pick that we turned into a DE that was all over the field on Sunday, and another first rounder next season (at this rate...:)).

And yeah. I'm in your house. I just find it funny...we had this debate in OUR house last year.

 

[dol_fan_1313]

Originally posted by RaptorBpW
You want me to be honest? Sure. I'll admit that I'd rather have a big, mashing HB who beats defenses into submission. I like yall's offense.

But Ricky was so freakin' WEIRD here. That wasn't just media hype; the dude was always doing something freaky. He earned $250,000 in fines last season (see SportsLine.com...or was it TSN...?)! I'm glad he's gone, and it has NOTHING to do with his play on the field, which was good. I don't care about long runs, although I like 'em when they happen. I like 4 and 5 yards each carry. But this is stupid. Ricky will have great games, so will Deuce. Deuce will have bad games, so will Ricky. Neither of them is God.

Take it from me.

Just GIVE IT UP already!

You said Ricky was so freakin WEIRD, Please explain to me what he did that was so freakin WEIRD? Just because some body is not the same as everyone else you claim him as being WEIRD. Please dont tell me he did interveiws with his helmit on our the wedding dress thing. What was so WEIRD I would like to know.

 

[RaptorBpW]

...curling up in his locker in a fetal position while his teammates go home...throwing food on the floor and leaving it there for days on end...locking himself in his home for two weeks at a time, getting his food from friends he got to buy groceries for him...

 

[RaptorBpW]

You want me to go on?

 

[dol_fan_1313]

Originally posted by RaptorBpW
You want me to go on?

Yes I would like you to go on! Imo that is not freakin WEIRD. You would have done the same thing if you had social anxiety disorder. It would be weird if he was in the locker room smelling peoples socks our somthing stupid like that. What he was doing he could not help with out professional help!