Rosen

[Kamelion4291]

I dont thing they should flat out cut him... Let him compete in camp and see what happens... There are still a couple ways for Rosen to bring value to the Fins, as a cheap backup, a couple of good showings in pre-season and a desparate team migh actually bring back something... Odds are pretty low IMO but he's not a liability until they have to make the final cuts. Thats when you really have to decide what to do with him...

And that's where I'd go with it too, but I also wouldn't be shocked at all if he's just flat out cut because Flores saw all he needed to see throughout this season.

The most likely scenario is that he stays and ends up as a backup to Fitz, but maybe looks more competent because Gailey is a better teacher and has a more simplified offense than O'Shea did. I mean, that's basically why Flores went to Gailey in the first place. He thinks he's a better teacher for young QBs.

The excuses just piss me off. It's one thing to say that Rosen has been awful, but maybe he can learn from better coaches. It's another to say that most of it isn't his fault. That's what gets me.

 

[Bob512]

This is the same logic that got us stuck with Tannehill for the better part of a decade. There’s always an excuse or a rationalization to excuse his poor performance. Great players play at a high level, period. If we aren’t seeing the high level of play, you look for it elsewhere.

Yet, with some good pieces around him, Tannehill has had good success and played very well with Tennessee.

It takes all kinds in the NFL. Mahomes is elite....Garappolo is not. That doesn't mean that Garappolo will not continue to improve. Some players have it right out of the box and others take time to develop.

I'm not sure where Rosen is on that spectrum. He certainly has all the physicals assets to get the job done, but he clearly isn't ready yet and there is not guarantee that he will ever be ready. You draft a QB, keep Fitz and keep Rosen and these guys (Rosen and your draft choice QB) sit and learn. If Rosen continues to develop, he can compete with a drafted QB, otherwise, he will eventually be gone.

I'm not willing to write Rosen off just yet. He may end up being a great backup or even starter....who knows, but we have him now and until we are sure, why not let it play out.

 

[Locke]

Yet, with some good pieces around him, Tannehill has had good success and played very well with Tennessee.

It takes all kinds in the NFL. Mahomes is elite....Garappolo is not. That doesn't mean that Garappolo will not continue to improve. Some players have it right out of the box and others take time to develop.

I'm not sure where Rosen is on that spectrum. He certainly has all the physicals assets to get the job done, but he clearly isn't ready yet and there is not guarantee that he will ever be ready. You draft a QB, keep Fitz and keep Rosen and these guys (Rosen and your draft choice QB) sit and learn. If Rosen continues to develop, he can compete with a drafted QB, otherwise, he will eventually be gone.

I'm not willing to write Rosen off just yet. He may end up being a great backup or even starter....who knows, but we have him now and until we are sure, why not let it play out.

Absolutely. But Tannehill just had the best season of his career and it took going to be team with an elite OL and running game to get that. We always knew Tannehill could get your where you needed to go if he had the right pieces. We can all acknowledge that to be true. However, a lot has to be in place for that to succeed and I would be shocked if it happens again for Tannehill.

Rosen seems to be the same type of QB, though maybe not as talented as Tannehill. Do we want to hitch our wagon to a QB who can succeed, but only under ideal circumstances? Or do we want a QB who did what Mahomes just did and put the entire offense on his back and made them perform? That’s the point those of us pounding the table for a Tua/Burrow are trying to express.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Nah bro. Rosen is terrible. I don't care about his tools when his worst tool is the most important aspect of playing qb.

He's never been great..never in college nor so far in the NFL.

There's a difference between "never been great" and "terrible. " I don't think Rosen is either. My disagreement (obsession?) Is with the word "terrible." QBs seen as terrible are projected high in the draft. No offense to anyone here, but if I have to go with consensus of professionals or FH posters, posters lose. No, they're not right every time, but that's the nature of evaluation

 

[Kamelion4291]

There's a difference between "never been great" and "terrible. " I don't think Rosen is either. My disagreement (obsession?) Is with the word "terrible." QBs seen as terrible are projected high in the draft. No offense to anyone here, but if I have to go with consensus of professionals or FH posters, posters lose. No, they're not right every time, but that's the nature of evaluation

So Rosen hasn't been terrible thus far in his career? If your disagreement is with the word "terrible", feel free to use another similar adjective to describe Rosen and if it's not close to "terrible", you're really being disingenuous.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

So Rosen hasn't been terrible thus far in his career? If your disagreement is with the word "terrible", feel free to use another similar adjective to describe Rosen and if it's not close to "terrible", you're really being disingenuous.

It appears common sense is on my side. You have yet to explain how "He's played terrible his entire career," not just his NFL career, yet, no college scout/coach and no NFL scout coach noticed. Or, how his backup in ARIZ was apparently more terrible than he was, or why such a terrible QB wasn't yanked before he ruined an entire season.
If it helps, I have never said nor do I claim now Rosen is a great QB. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB R1 in '20. I do NOT think, however, he's terrible and certainly not through his career as QB. My term to describe him? Unimpressive so far.

 

[Kamelion4291]

It appears common sense is on my side. You have yet to explain how "He's played terrible his entire career," not just his NFL career, yet, no college scout/coach and no NFL scout coach noticed. Or, how his backup in ARIZ was apparently more terrible than he was, or why such a terrible QB wasn't yanked before he ruined an entire season.
If it helps, I have never said nor do I claim now Rosen is a great QB. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB R1 in '20. I do NOT think, however, he's terrible and certainly not through his career as QB. My term to describe him? Unimpressive so far.

Are you coming from this weird reality where if one QB is called terrible it means that another one can't be? Is terrible unique? Does UCLA's backup and Arizona's backup being terrible as well mean something else that I'm missing here?

Including his junior year... the year before he was drafted, he's 9-20.

You right~ All those evaluators are right and clearly are never wrong. He wasn't drafted based on production, I can tell you that, and it's only continued into his NFL career.

So weird that Rosen has no clue what to do against pressure to the point where we're starting a journeyman QB that's never made the playoffs who looks MILES better than Rosen does, and the excuse is that Rosen is young. Mahomes managed to walk into the league and put up historic numbers, played against pressure and succeeded to the point where in his 2nd year playing in the NFL ever he just came back from 3 double digit deficits in the playoffs alone, one of which was against the best defense in the league. Did he need 100 years of seasoning like Fitzpatrick did in order to do that?

Must be weird to see what actual production looks like staring you in the face yesterday. Maybe if we slow cook Rosen for another decade, he might make some throws when the pocket breaks down.

Maybe.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Are you coming from this weird reality where if one QB is called terrible it means that another one can't be? Is terrible unique? Does UCLA's backup and Arizona's backup being terrible as well mean something else that I'm missing here?

Including his junior year... the year before he was drafted, he's 9-20.

You right~ All those evaluators are right and clearly are never wrong. He wasn't drafted based on production, I can tell you that, and it's only continued into his NFL career.

So weird that Rosen has no clue what to do against pressure to the point where we're starting a journeyman QB that's never made the playoffs who looks MILES better than Rosen does, and the excuse is that Rosen is young. Mahomes managed to walk into the league and put up historic numbers, played against pressure and succeeded to the point where in his 2nd year playing in the NFL ever he just came back from 3 double digit deficits in the playoffs alone, one of which was against the best defense in the league. Did he need 100 years of seasoning like Fitzpatrick did in order to do that?

Must be weird to see what actual production looks like staring you in the face yesterday. Maybe if we slow cook Rosen for another decade, he might make some throws when the pocket breaks down.

Maybe.

I suspect we'll never see a common ground, so this is my last reply.
1) I never said evaluators are never wrong. In fact, and I quote "No, they're not right every time" Straw man.
2) 9-20 isn't terrible. Poor? Yes. Uninspiring? Yes. Terrible? Unless you have a liberal definition, no.
3) What do you think the odds are UCLA and ARIZ coincidentally had QBs worse than a terrible QB? And I've heard no one call Glennon terrible, yet, the HC risked his job keeping Glennon OUT of games.
4) Back to evaluators. Almost all (probably all) had Rosen ranked as a R1 pick. You're expecting me to believe your evaluation skills are better than all evaluators combined? You don't think ONE evaluator would say 'golly, this guy is terrible. He doesn't even belong in the NFL?' I still think "terrible" is extreme.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

I suspect we'll never see a common ground, so this is my last reply.

The ignore button is one of this sites greatest functions

 

[fansinceGWilson]

The ignore button is one of this sites greatest functions

Noted

 

[The Goat]

Because he isn't good enough? I don't know. Just because someone has talent coming out of college and is cheap is no reason for them to automatically occupy a roster spot. Even if you walk into next season with Fitz/Rosen/Tua on the roster, do you REALLY believe you're going to get good QB performances if Fitz goes down?

People get drafted high for potential all the time. The worst thing you can do is continually get tricked into thinking that it's going to have some payoff at the end.

Matt Barkley
Jarrett Stidham
David Fales
RGIII
Ryan Finley
Garrett Gilbert
Paxton Lynch
AJ McCarron
Brian Hoyer
Nick Foles
Marcus Mariota
Matt Moore
Tyrod Taylor
Cooper Rush
Alex Tanney
Josh McCown
Case Keenum
Chase Daniel
David Blough
Tim Boyle
Sean Mannion
Will Grier
Taysom Hill
Ryan Griffin
Brett Hundley
Blake Bortles
Nick Mullen
Geno Smith

Those, as far as I can tell, are the current backup QBs for each team. There are MAYBE 3 or 4 I would take over Rosen. Do you mean to tell me that Josh Rosen is worse than those players? Even 25% of them?

Edit: And how did you go from "not worth rostering" to "potential payoff" in one post? It just doesn't make sense to cut Rosen, unless he suddenly turns into a locker room cancer.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Matt Barkley
Jarrett Stidham
David Fales
RGIII
Ryan Finley
Garrett Gilbert
Paxton Lynch
AJ McCarron
Brian Hoyer
Nick Foles
Marcus Mariota
Matt Moore
Tyrod Taylor
Cooper Rush
Alex Tanney
Josh McCown
Case Keenum
Chase Daniel
David Blough
Tim Boyle
Sean Mannion
Will Grier
Taysom Hill
Ryan Griffin
Brett Hundley
Blake Bortles
Nick Mullen
Geno Smith

Those, as far as I can tell, are the current backup QBs for each team. There are MAYBE 3 or 4 I would take over Rosen. Do you mean to tell me that Josh Rosen is worse than those players? Even 25% of them?

Edit: And how did you go from "not worth rostering" to "potential payoff" in one post? It just doesn't make sense to cut Rosen, unless he suddenly turns into a locker room cancer.

This is just an insane argument to make. What exactly are you basing your opinion on? Since Rosen hasn't had any actual production thus far in his NFL career, this has to be based entirely on where he was drafted and that's it. That basis has gotten so many coaches and GMs fired it's ridiculous.

Off rip I'd take Bortles, Bridgewater (not on your list, for some reason you added their 3rd string QB... wonder why), Chase Daniel, Case Keenum, Tyrod Taylor, Matt Moore, Marcus Mariota, Nick Foles, and probably AJ McCaron. That's 9 which is easily more than 25%. That's not including some of the other guys who literally haven't even played yet in their careers that I might take over Rosen too if I had any sort of context.

I'd love for you to give me a legitimate argument for Rosen over ANY of the guys I just mentioned.

 

[BlueFin]

Sure, if you actually consider that logical.

"He's played terrible his entire career, but it's not his fault because he's got tools (that aren't used) and that I have seen enough of him to invest in (even though Flores saw enough of him to sit him on the bench for the rest of the season, even when we had nothing to play for)."

Going to be a real shock to a lot of you if that dude gets straight up cut this off-season.

If you want too ignore the conditions he was thrown into in Arizona and Miami in back to back years...how he’s had a different OC every year and two different in Arizona....how is coaching was so bad he is only now learning to recognize the mike linebacker.

He played well enough on a bad UCLA team to be a top ten pick.

He is 22, younger than Burrow.... develop him.

His salary is cheap.

 

[Kamelion4291]

If you want too ignore the conditions he was thrown into in Arizona and Miami in back to back years...how he’s had a different OC every year and two different in Arizona....how is coaching was so bad he is only now learning to recognize the mike linebacker.

He played well enough on a bad UCLA team to be a top ten pick.

He is 22, younger than Burrow.... develop him.

His salary is cheap.

Nothing is his fault.

Someone overvalued him that was subsequently was fired for it.

He's young and cheap so he automatically deserves a roster spot.

Got it.

 

[Vaark]

All this hostility if not outright antagonism towards Rosen for some is over the top which makes me suspect that it has more to do with something else than with the reality that he's not had an ample time for a fair audition.

This is still the guy that Mora called very smart and Mayock called the best pure pocket passer he's seen come out of college in a number of years.