Sean Payton - Miami Dolphins - Trade - Rumor Mill | Page 15 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Sean Payton - Miami Dolphins - Trade - Rumor Mill

royalshank said:
I am not a fan of coaches who already won the SB w another team. They are not as hungry and have never won w new team. I also have concerns about how good Payton really is. Had Miami signed Brees Payton might still be calling plays for someone - or being stripped of those duties when he sucked it up (like w the Giants). Something rubs me the wrong way w this guy. That said no way in hell I want Mangini or McDaniels. Neither one are HC material as they have already proven. So if getting Payton prevents Ross from doing something super dumb then ok. I still like Dan Campbell. For those critical saying he's not aggressive, how much more aggressive do you want than firing Coyle and now Lazor? He certainly hasn't stopped trying to get better.
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Agree with the hunger part. But don't worry , if those coaches don't get you they have someone else on the menu. Todd hanky I mean Haley. The fun never ends.
 
BobDole said:
he's also kumerow's nephew. his talent is unbelievable but busting 3 times in the first round within the same family would be so us
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Wow, didn't realize he was related to Eric. Kid makes a bad play or two watch out for the pitchforks to come out if he were the pick.
 
Give up the draft picks and get him.Because we are not the only ones that want him.
 
Albert Romano said:
Wow, didn't realize he was related to Eric. Kid makes a bad play or two watch out for the pitchforks to come out if he were the pick.
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oh yeah. the irony is palpable. :lol:

at least the whole ginn family thing was a metaphor.

i love the prospect but would steer away from him if a hargreaves or ramsey is there - and not gonna lie - our ****ty luck with his family plays a part
 
Not a big fan of giving up more draft picks, especially for a coach, but it's a catch-22. Don't and we keep the pick(s) and probably have the current FO mess up the picks and keep the same mantra going. Or give up the picks and partially handcuff him coming in with less ammo to restock the team with what he thinks we need. If it's a choice between the two, I'd rather have the better coach and less picks than a marginal coach and more.
 
I would never give a coach full control of a roster.

I can't come up with too many teams recently who have been successful when allowing that. Fisher and Chip are the last 2 coaches I remember getting full control of there rosters.

As far as giving up a draft pick for him, ya you do it.....

Unless you've forgotten how many coaches in the past have turned us down.
 
hooshoops said:
drew brees got to his level under paytons tutelage...he wasn't close to the same player in san diego...

and like others have said if its full control tannebaum or full control payton I think I can handle the latter...although I'd much rather have him oversee the offense alone...got to do what you got to do to get a guy I guess
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Everyone says this but the statistics disagree. In Brees final 2 seasons in San Diego it was only his 4th and 5th season in the league. He was still learning and crafting his game. Despite that his numbers were just as good his last two years in San Diego as they were his first two seasons in New Orleans.
Brees' final two seasons in San Diego
585/900 65% 7.48ypa 6735 yards 51td 21int 96.6 rating

Brees' first two seasons in New Orleans
796/1206 66% 8841 yards 7.33ypa 62td 35int 92.68 rating

The only thing that went up were the attempts, yards and interceptions. TD/int ratio got worse, rating got worse.

He also did that in San Diego despite LT sniping 46 rushing TD's those two seasons.

The Brees led Chargers scoring offense in his final two seasons were ranked 3rd and 5th in the NFL.

The Brees led Saints scoring offense in his first two seasons in New Orleans were ranked 5th and 12th.


I've always felt Brees made Payton while the consensus has always been the other way around. Only thing Payton did was took the reigns off Brees that he had playing Marty Ball in San Diego.



I really like what Payton brought to the Saints. He was the right guy at the right time and was a really good fit for Brees but people forget how good Brees was in San Diego because he was overshadowed by LT and the Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers to replace him after one down season early in his career.

What I don't like about Payton is his plug and play attitude for the LB position and his constant defensive problems. It's a fun brand of football to watch when it's hitting on all cylinders with a hall of fame QB. It's not a fun brand to watch when 3 of the last 4 seasons you have to suffer through 3 of the top 15 worst defenses in NFL history. This season we have already given up 30 TD passes. The NFL record is 37 and it isn't like we've been playing good QB's either. Guys like Mariota, Winston, Hoyer, Wheeden, Cousins and Bradford all lit us up. Manning hung 6 TD's on us and we won. If this team had Tannehill instead of Brees right now we'd be winless despite having the easiest schedule in the NFL.

It wouldn't shock me if Payton wanted out. The team is salary cap hell. We have $33.4 million in dead cap space, next season it's likely to be even more. People want to point at Brees contract but it's the 8th biggest contract in the NFL and he's giving us a huge return. It's just inflated the last two seasons because it was heavily backloaded and the Saints also restructured to get enough cap space for this season which pushed it up higher next year. The real problem is the even larger amount of dead money that is giving us nothing. The Saints have had some of the worst defensive drafts I've ever seen in the past 5-6 years, our big free agent signings have delt with injury, our best pass rusher decided to get stupid on social media, get in a fight with a hooker then started beating people with a belt on a beach just after we sign him to a massive contract. We've had some really bad luck on the defensive side of the ball but it took some really bad drafting, bad planning and bad coaching combined with it to get the Saints where they are now. Our LB's are dreadful, we can't generate a pass rush and Brandon Browner has the worst PFF grade for a corner in PFF's history combined with leading the league in penalties and he still hasn't been benched despite decent play from all the other corners. He's literally a one man wrecking ball and we continue to put him out there on Browner island, it's like a vacation home to even the worst WR's.

While Payton might not have complete control of personnel decisions on paper with the Saints rest assured in reality he does. I like him a lot better when he was just the cook because the guy can't buy groceries worth a damn.

What I do know is in a couple year stretch he got a divorce and was suspended from the league for a year in Goodell's player safety to cover his concussion lawsuit game and he hasn't been the same since. I really think he was a great coach and could be once again but a change of scenery may be needed for all parties involved. I'll be forever grateful for what he did from 2006-2011. It was like a dream come true for Saints fans. It's ashame we couldn't nab another Lombardi in 2011, that was the best Saints team ever, even better than the 2009 team.

Right now though, I couldn't be more indifferent. We can't do much worse with a hall of fame QB than we are now and it sure appears like Payton has lost this team despite him spending the entire offseason on building it on character and locker room leadership. I guess it's paid off because we lead the league in passing TD's allowed. We lead the league in passer rating allowed, even set to destroy the NFL record with a 116 opposing QB rating. We even lead the league in defensive penalties. Lots of leadership right there.
 
psfign said:
Dont you remember the bounty scandal? cant get more bully than that.
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Playing dirty and being a physically dominant football team are not one in the same.


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iwastherein1972 said:
Every year we hear the Playstation types on here cry for more picks, more picks, trade down, yada yada yada... And this front office keeps WASTING them.

A 2nd or 3rd pick for a Super Bowl winning coach with multiple divisional titles is an absolute NO BRAINER.
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So Jimmy Johnson and Bill Belichick are "PlayStation types" ? You make your living off football? Just curious where the condescending attitude comes from.

Sean Peyton was along for the ride much the way Brian Billick was. Neither are great coaches but both have rings.


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bclemms said:
Everyone says this but the statistics disagree. In Brees final 2 seasons in San Diego it was only his 4th and 5th season in the league. He was still learning and crafting his game. Despite that his numbers were just as good his last two years in San Diego as they were his first two seasons in New Orleans.
Brees' final two seasons in San Diego
585/900 65% 7.48ypa 6735 yards 51td 21int 96.6 rating

Brees' first two seasons in New Orleans
796/1206 66% 8841 yards 7.33ypa 62td 35int 92.68 rating

The only thing that went up were the attempts, yards and interceptions. TD/int ratio got worse, rating got worse.

He also did that in San Diego despite LT sniping 46 rushing TD's those two seasons.

The Brees led Chargers scoring offense in his final two seasons were ranked 3rd and 5th in the NFL.

The Brees led Saints scoring offense in his first two seasons in New Orleans were ranked 5th and 12th.


I've always felt Brees made Payton while the consensus has always been the other way around. Only thing Payton did was took the reigns off Brees that he had playing Marty Ball in San Diego.



I really like what Payton brought to the Saints. He was the right guy at the right time and was a really good fit for Brees but people forget how good Brees was in San Diego because he was overshadowed by LT and the Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers to replace him after one down season early in his career.

What I don't like about Payton is his plug and play attitude for the LB position and his constant defensive problems. It's a fun brand of football to watch when it's hitting on all cylinders with a hall of fame QB. It's not a fun brand to watch when 3 of the last 4 seasons you have to suffer through 3 of the top 15 worst defenses in NFL history. This season we have already given up 30 TD passes. The NFL record is 37 and it isn't like we've been playing good QB's either. Guys like Mariota, Winston, Hoyer, Wheeden, Cousins and Bradford all lit us up. Manning hung 6 TD's on us and we won. If this team had Tannehill instead of Brees right now we'd be winless despite having the easiest schedule in the NFL.

It wouldn't shock me if Payton wanted out. The team is salary cap hell. We have $33.4 million in dead cap space, next season it's likely to be even more. People want to point at Brees contract but it's the 8th biggest contract in the NFL and he's giving us a huge return. It's just inflated the last two seasons because it was heavily backloaded and the Saints also restructured to get enough cap space for this season which pushed it up higher next year. The real problem is the even larger amount of dead money that is giving us nothing. The Saints have had some of the worst defensive drafts I've ever seen in the past 5-6 years, our big free agent signings have delt with injury, our best pass rusher decided to get stupid on social media, get in a fight with a hooker then started beating people with a belt on a beach just after we sign him to a massive contract. We've had some really bad luck on the defensive side of the ball but it took some really bad drafting, bad planning and bad coaching combined with it to get the Saints where they are now. Our LB's are dreadful, we can't generate a pass rush and Brandon Browner has the worst PFF grade for a corner in PFF's history combined with leading the league in penalties and he still hasn't been benched despite decent play from all the other corners. He's literally a one man wrecking ball and we continue to put him out there on Browner island, it's like a vacation home to even the worst WR's.

While Payton might not have complete control of personnel decisions on paper with the Saints rest assured in reality he does. I like him a lot better when he was just the cook because the guy can't buy groceries worth a damn.

What I do know is in a couple year stretch he got a divorce and was suspended from the league for a year in Goodell's player safety to cover his concussion lawsuit game and he hasn't been the same since. I really think he was a great coach and could be once again but a change of scenery may be needed for all parties involved. I'll be forever grateful for what he did from 2006-2011. It was like a dream come true for Saints fans. It's ashame we couldn't nab another Lombardi in 2011, that was the best Saints team ever, even better than the 2009 team.

Right now though, I couldn't be more indifferent. We can't do much worse with a hall of fame QB than we are now and it sure appears like Payton has lost this team despite him spending the entire offseason on building it on character and locker room leadership. I guess it's paid off because we lead the league in passing TD's allowed. We lead the league in passer rating allowed, even set to destroy the NFL record with a 116 opposing QB rating. We even lead the league in defensive penalties. Lots of leadership right there.
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so you think brees would have eventually morphed himself into a top 5 qb in san diego had he stayed there and rivers wasn't in the picture? I struggle with that personally...I think paytons offense was tailor made for drew brees...he gave him the keys and he let him drive...and brees decision making pocket presence and entire game overall took off...although I guess it could be said that time and experience more than anything else could have been a factor there...

I can tell ya the way payton handles the game is masterful...calls timeouts at the right times...plays for the win at the right time...just top notch there...and I think his gameplans are very strong

dreadful lbs? hell you just spent a top 40 pick on a inside lb with no instincts...I could have told you that was gonna fail...athletes without instincts at ilb are as run of the mill as they come

the personnel thing does scare me...no doubt...

I know you said that you feel of late there's been a lack of leadership from the head coach thus all the undisciplined play on defense do you think a change of scenery there is really what is needed? cause I think if payton came here and installed his concepts and we could pair with him a solid dc option like a Schwartz for instance it's just what the doctor ordered...

lastly, and this is really what I care about as much as anything do you think payton would get the best out of ryan tannehill a 4th year qb who has been on the uptick since he came in the league til we neutered him really this year although these things were set in motion the day we hired a no audible offensive coordinators offense in the first place...where he really needs growth is in the pocket development and situational play although I attribute a lot of the situational play problems recently to a just terrible offensive concepts and teams sitting on our you could set your watch to them tendencies by down and distance more than anything else and the inabiiity to check out at the los into something else...and I see these things on tape on repeat

my personal opinion is had Miami stuck with a full audible system like shermans for instance his prior oc but lost the dumb cadence and short yardage play calling (which shouldn't have been that hard to find in an oc candidate to begin with) ryan tannehill would be further along right now

2 teams run a no audible neuter the qb system on offense and of course we would happen to be one of them...moronic

thank you for your post...very strong stuff...
 
We suck drafting in 2nd round anyway. Landry was a miracle.
 
I like Sean Payton but he also had a Top 5 QB. He gets a 26th QB in Miami. Hope he gets full control and Trades Tannehill and draft his own QB. Tannehill is Below Average. He chokes in big games. We really need a QB in 2017. I will give Tannehill 1 more year, but he needs to get us in playoffs or we draft new QB in 2017. Tannehill has a shot, but it's a long shot.
 
hooshoops said:
so you think brees would have eventually morphed himself into a top 5 qb in san diego had he stayed there and rivers wasn't in the picture? I struggle with that personally...I think paytons offense was tailor made for drew brees...he gave him the keys and he let him drive...and brees decision making pocket presence and entire game overall took off...although I guess it could be said that time and experience more than anything else could have been a factor there...

I can tell ya the way payton handles the game is masterful...calls timeouts at the right times...plays for the win at the right time...just top notch there...and I think his gameplans are very strong

dreadful lbs? hell you just spent a top 40 pick on a inside lb with no instincts...I could have told you that was gonna fail...athletes without instincts at ilb are as run of the mill as they come

the personnel thing does scare me...no doubt...

I know you said that you feel of late there's been a lack of leadership from the head coach thus all the undisciplined play on defense do you think a change of scenery there is really what is needed? cause I think if payton came here and installed his concepts and we could pair with him a solid dc option like a Schwartz for instance it's just what the doctor ordered...

lastly, and this is really what I care about as much as anything do you think payton would get the best out of ryan tannehill a 4th year qb who has been on the uptick since he came in the league til we neutered him really this year although these things were set in motion the day we hired a no audible offensive coordinators offense in the first place...where he really needs growth is in the pocket development and situational play although I attribute a lot of the situational play problems recently to a just terrible offensive concepts and teams sitting on our you could set your watch to them tendencies by down and distance more than anything else and the inabiiity to check out at the los into something else...and I see these things on tape on repeat

my personal opinion is had Miami stuck with a full audible system like shermans for instance his prior oc but lost the dumb cadence and short yardage play calling (which shouldn't have been that hard to find in an oc candidate to begin with) ryan tannehill would be further along right now

2 teams run a no audible neuter the qb system on offense and of course we would happen to be one of them...moronic

thank you for your post...very strong stuff...
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i seem to recall SD drafting Eli because Brees looked like a bust. Then suddenly he woke up and by his last season there he was pro bowl material.
 
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