hoops
Tua time!
i seem to recall SD drafting Eli because Brees looked like a bust. Then suddenly he woke up and by his last season there he was pro bowl material.
that was my read on it too...they didn't believe in drew brees in san diego
i seem to recall SD drafting Eli because Brees looked like a bust. Then suddenly he woke up and by his last season there he was pro bowl material.
so you think brees would have eventually morphed himself into a top 5 qb in san diego had he stayed there and rivers wasn't in the picture?
I struggle with that personally...I think paytons offense was tailor made for drew brees...he gave him the keys and he let him drive...and brees decision making pocket presence and entire game overall took off...although I guess it could be said that time and experience more than anything else could have been a factor there...
I can tell ya the way payton handles the game is masterful...calls timeouts at the right times...plays for the win at the right time...just top notch there...and I think his gameplans are very strong
dreadful lbs? hell you just spent a top 40 pick on a inside lb with no instincts...I could have told you that was gonna fail...athletes without instincts at ilb are as run of the mill as they come
the personnel thing does scare me...no doubt...
I know you said that you feel of late there's been a lack of leadership from the head coach thus all the undisciplined play on defense do you think a change of scenery there is really what is needed? cause I think if payton came here and installed his concepts and we could pair with him a solid dc option like a Schwartz for instance it's just what the doctor ordered...
lastly, and this is really what I care about as much as anything do you think payton would get the best out of ryan tannehill a 4th year qb who has been on the uptick since he came in the league til we neutered him really this year although these things were set in motion the day we hired a no audible offensive coordinators offense in the first place...where he really needs growth is in the pocket development and situational play although I attribute a lot of the situational play problems recently to a just terrible offensive concepts and teams sitting on our you could set your watch to them tendencies by down and distance more than anything else and the inabiiity to check out at the los into something else...and I see these things on tape on repeat
my personal opinion is had Miami stuck with a full audible system like shermans for instance his prior oc but lost the dumb cadence and short yardage play calling (which shouldn't have been that hard to find in an oc candidate to begin with) ryan tannehill would be further along right now
2 teams run a no audible neuter the qb system on offense and of course we would happen to be one of them...moronic
thank you for your post...very strong stuff...
he'd be the best bet to see if tannehill is it or not. i wouldn't let him anywhere near managerial duties or the defense though. total control on offense (would we even need an OC? campbell as an assistant OC would be nice - i love the attitude he brings even though he's so green in so many areas) with a tough SOB DC (schwartz is the obvious choice). it would have to be along those lines for it to work
No, I think he already had. Look at the 2004-2005 seasons. Brees was behind only Peyton Manning for passer rating over those two seasons. Ahead of guys like Tom Brady and Brett Favre. His 2004 season he had a passer rating of 105. At the time that was the 11th best rating a QB has posted in a season in the history of the league, the only QB's at that time to ever have posted higher QB ratings are all in the hall of fame.
You readily admit that Ryan Tannehill is still a work in progress and realize a QB doesn't mature by his 4th season. That is exactly where Brees was in 2004, in his 4th season and well on his way to becoming a great QB. Had he not been snubbed in the Pro Bowl he would have come to New Orleans after back to back Pro Bowls. People forget that. They just remember Brees being replaced by Phillip Rivers because of an injury. I've always felt that if Brees didn't injure his shoulder there was absolutely no way the Chargers could let him leave but it gave them an out. They paid dearly for getting trigger happy after Brees had one down seasons in his second year as a starter. So yeah, I think Payton just let Brees be the guy he was already destined to become by building the offense around him and letting him wing it.
He was overshadowed in San Diego because of LT, then being on a team that doesn't get much air time playing afternoon games, Marty ball was limiting his chances and people rarely saw him play. He was really good.
I do think Payton could get the best out of Tannehill if he gives him the chance and gives it time. Tannehill is going to need a lot of work. He'll basically have the experience of a college QB in a pro style offense and it's going to take some times. Payton likes QB's that work really hard in the film room, he likes guys that can work quickly through his progressions and he runs a complicated offense that runs a lot of option routes. It's going to be a big learning curve. I think Tannehill can be really good if people don't run him out of town before he can get to that point. Biggest thing he is going to have to learn is to work through his progressions and to trust his protection where he starts climbing the pocket and moving inside the pocket. He has the athletic ability but doesn't really have that feel yet but he's got so little experience as a QB in general and none in a pro style offense. Payton will play to his strengths with a lot of roll outs and max protections to limit the reads and maximize his time. He did this with Chase Daniel when he was the backup to Brees in New Orleans but he's going to have to learn how to play the position like Payton wants or it wont last very long.
I couldn't agree more about not allowing Qb's to audible. If you can't trust your QB to make a presnap read, audible to get the team in the best position then you are handcuffing him considerably. I understand why the Dolphins built that stupid offense around him because it is what he had in college. I also think it's stunted his growth as a QB.
I really don't know if a change of scenery is what is needed. I do know it'll be 2017 before the Saints are ready to compete again and they will but that is a long time for a coach that has the chance to jump ship now. He's struggling to win games over the past 4 seasons with a top 3 QB in the league, you just don't see that very often in the NFL. Something has to give.
This thread has descended into the battle of thesis writing! Can you keep the posts short enough to satisfy my American attention span?
I'd give away a 2nd round pick to get rid of Ross!
After that, we can look at our options.
While fellow Saints fan bcclemms made a great post about Payton I feel need to clear up some misconceptions -
Jason Cole has absolutely no special insight, friendship with, or connection to Sean Payton. This is pure speculation on his part. IIRC Cole also loudly speculated Payton would sign with Dallas when his last Saints contract extension was rejected by the league. It never happened.
It's been rumored that Payton has an "opt out" clause in his last Saints contract. If it does exist it would be based on Tom Benson passing the team ownership to grandchildren. After much trouble with his granddaughter, Rita LeBlanc, after putting her in an executive role with the team Benson removed his grandchildren from inheriting the team entirely and now his wife will end up with the team. It's a very public secret that LeBlanc did not get along with either Payton or GM Mickey Loomis and likely both would be gone it she gained control. She no longer has anything to do with the team and has lost every court case trying to gain control of the team.
Tom Benson is extremely loyal to his coaches - he kept his first HC (Jim Mora) far longer than he should have, Mr. Benson was then convinced by his then GM, Bill Kuharic, to hire Mike Ditka (because Ditka didn't want to be a GM/HC that was all the rage at the time), his next coach Jim Haslett was only fired after Katrina and posting a 3-13 record, and finally Payton. Tom Benson will not fire Payton (in fact he was more than willing to make Payton the highest paid HC, even more than Belichick). To get him the Phins will have to exceed his current $8 million a year deal. Payton would have to quit the Saints aren't going to fire him.
The Saints are in their current cap mess almost entirely due to Sean Payton. Mickey Loomis is team General Manager in name only. Payton is in entire control of player/personnel, Loomis' only job was to somehow fit these players under the cap (which he did for years by backloading contracts, those checks he wrote came due this year and next). Payton loves adding expensive Free Agents - Darren Sharper, Jairius Bryd, Darren Sproles, Brandon Browner, etc. All those contracts, bad extensions (Junior Galette, Jimmy Graham), and poor drafts have now left the Saints with a terrible roster and rebuilding process that may last years. Payton will be abandoning the ship he steered in the iceberg.
Finally Payton hasn't been the same coach he was before his "Bounty" suspension. The coach that returned lacked the same drive, passion, and innovation as the one before he left. He had a taste of retirement and loved it. A change of scenery might change that for a season or two but the lure of not having to put in the ultra long hours, 365 day attention will still be there.
So my thought for Dolphin fan is - Caveat Emptor.