Lovethefish
Active Roster
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 1,596
- Reaction score
- 923
David Webb has never done a thing. He’s on Jets practice squad. If we wanted him you wouldn’t have to dream about it. Just sign him.
Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (seniors)
- Thread starter Pachyderm_Wave
- Start date
Most of the seniors are not worth a first round pick. As of now, with still some games left in the season which can change opinions, I prefer Gardner Minshew, and that's about it. He is not a first round value, not clean, his numbers are out of whack, but in this class he is first round so far.
Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 15,323
- Reaction score
- 13,905
Gardner Minshew may end up the best of a bunch of bad options among the Senior class. All I know is you're probably going to lose betting on any of the others. At least with Minshew there's still some doubt.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Yeah Minshew has been showing a lot of great qualities and the intangibles are popping way off as well, but he screams "backup" because of his lack of arm talent.
Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 15,323
- Reaction score
- 13,905
Clayton Thorson is probably going to be the kid I'd bet on at the next level out of this Senior class - although he's a little bit frustrating with some of the inconsistency and interceptions. I typically try not to overreact to interceptions. However, he's not as careless as Grier with the football, and he reacts better to pressure than Ryan Finley, who just threw a game losing pick as he was being hit by Alton Robinson against Syracuse.
Thorson has a combination of size, athleticism, and moxie that stands out among this class to me. He's demonstrated the clutch gene over and over again throughout his career. That cannot be underestimated in my opinion. He's still not completely healthy from the knee injury last year but he's starting to get close.
Furthermore, he's an anticipatory passer - which is largely missing from this class. His ball placement is excellent. We used to always teach facemask or higher when throwing into the endzone, Thorson has mastered this. He ball placement on the TD throw into the endzone to McGowan Saturday from about 40 yards in the air to beat Wisconsin was incredible.
Thorson has a combination of size, athleticism, and moxie that stands out among this class to me. He's demonstrated the clutch gene over and over again throughout his career. That cannot be underestimated in my opinion. He's still not completely healthy from the knee injury last year but he's starting to get close.
Furthermore, he's an anticipatory passer - which is largely missing from this class. His ball placement is excellent. We used to always teach facemask or higher when throwing into the endzone, Thorson has mastered this. He ball placement on the TD throw into the endzone to McGowan Saturday from about 40 yards in the air to beat Wisconsin was incredible.
Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 15,323
- Reaction score
- 13,905
Most Underrated: I have to say Thorson, Minshew, and Drew Anderson.
Most Overrated: All the rest. Especially Drew Lock. You'll notice he doesn't even appear here.
Most Overrated: All the rest. Especially Drew Lock. You'll notice he doesn't even appear here.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Hah, I hadn't noticed he was off the list altogether.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I hate to place too much on one game, because it's NOT really just one game, but one game for me was a perception-changer and sometimes that can be important.
I went from not having a lot of interest in NDSU QB Easton Stick to having quite a bit of interest in him.
Seeing him get to 55+ mph on a 37-38 yard distance on 4th & 20 with 0:00 remaining in the 1st half against Delaware...that affected me. It affected me because I'd regarded him as a guy that I see throwing short a lot at NDSU, throwing with touch and arc on the deeper passes, etc. But as I look through more of the 2018 games (I'd mostly looked at his 2017 tape), I'm seeing a hell of a lot more heaters than I thought I would. That means he's got a *full* array of throws, and that's meaningful.
Because you knew the guy could run around. You knew he was nimble on his pins, keeps his knees bent, his feet bouncing, all these great things. You know he could take some off the dumps, arc it high on the deep balls, manipulate with his eyes. You knew he could do a lot of things technically very well. But to me all that stuff at the FCS level doesn't start to get interesting unless he's got that legit NFL arm talent. Otherwise he's another Brock Jensen.
Easton Stick may throw with the most consistently fast velocity on those squeeze throws of any of the guys I've looked at. Faster than Drew Anderson. That...I was not expecting.
I went from not having a lot of interest in NDSU QB Easton Stick to having quite a bit of interest in him.
Seeing him get to 55+ mph on a 37-38 yard distance on 4th & 20 with 0:00 remaining in the 1st half against Delaware...that affected me. It affected me because I'd regarded him as a guy that I see throwing short a lot at NDSU, throwing with touch and arc on the deeper passes, etc. But as I look through more of the 2018 games (I'd mostly looked at his 2017 tape), I'm seeing a hell of a lot more heaters than I thought I would. That means he's got a *full* array of throws, and that's meaningful.
Because you knew the guy could run around. You knew he was nimble on his pins, keeps his knees bent, his feet bouncing, all these great things. You know he could take some off the dumps, arc it high on the deep balls, manipulate with his eyes. You knew he could do a lot of things technically very well. But to me all that stuff at the FCS level doesn't start to get interesting unless he's got that legit NFL arm talent. Otherwise he's another Brock Jensen.
Easton Stick may throw with the most consistently fast velocity on those squeeze throws of any of the guys I've looked at. Faster than Drew Anderson. That...I was not expecting.
When are college players allowed to talk to NFL teams?
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Another Drew Anderson game capped.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I didn't see this before but typically scouts will pay teams a visit once or maybe several times in the year. I think they may be allowed to speak with the seniors at those times.
Manny Wilkins reminds me some of Tyrod Taylor. Moves around the pocket well, buys time, has enough arm strength. But, he processes the game too slow, and his accuracy is all over the place. With the exception of Harry, I don't think his receivers help him (hardly any separation), and his throwing motion is better than Taylor's, but he's a lesser athlete, and given his shortcomings, that's probably the difference between him getting some starting time in the league (as Taylor did) and him being someone who is a career backup and/or struggles to stay in the league. I do like that he's cut his turnovers way down in 2018, but a lot of that can be attributed to the conservative nature of ASU's offense. I think he's worth a look as an UDFA/potential cheap backup, and I do think he's better than a number of QB's who have been drafted in recent years, but that's obviously not saying a lot.
I don't know if it's the colors, size, etc, but reminds me of rivers.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Here's a visualization of how you can think about arm strength for an NFL prospect.
The blue line is actually Drew Anderson but I'm not trying to tout him here, because in my experience Anderson just has a very typically ideal NFL starting caliber arm. He's not Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, or Matt Stafford. But he's around the level just below that.
This is really just to show you visually that Will Grier doesn't stack up. And he's not alone. That people aren't necessarily singling him out in this year's class for having a popgun arm is very telling, because so many of the rest of the guys are in the same boat.
Slimm has it right with Gardner Minshew ranked above Will Grier. They have the same arm talent and Minshew is just a better performer on game days, with a much better character/football intelligence profile.
There are two aspects of the BLUE line that deserve mention, and describe what you typically see in the ideal NFL QB prospect:
1. At that 60 to 100 foot distance ranges, you need to see average velocities in the 50+ mph range. Anything below that is a big red flag.
2. Notice how the function is concaved. This is typical of a strong-armed player that is putting NFL caliber throws on tape at the college level. Guys with NFL caliber arms can maintain that 50 mph average velocity as you stretch out the distance longer and longer. But at some point, velocity breaks downward more steeply because the players have to really ARC the football high in order to get to that distance. The later that inflection point occurs, the more ideal the guy's arm strength is.
One difference between a Drew Anderson and a Carson Wentz, for example, is that I've seen Carson Wentz maintain 49 mph terrestrial speed even on a 140+ foot throw. I haven't seen that of Anderson. Doesn't mean it can't happen. It's just not on tape. That's what private workouts are for.
The blue line is actually Drew Anderson but I'm not trying to tout him here, because in my experience Anderson just has a very typically ideal NFL starting caliber arm. He's not Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, or Matt Stafford. But he's around the level just below that.
This is really just to show you visually that Will Grier doesn't stack up. And he's not alone. That people aren't necessarily singling him out in this year's class for having a popgun arm is very telling, because so many of the rest of the guys are in the same boat.
Slimm has it right with Gardner Minshew ranked above Will Grier. They have the same arm talent and Minshew is just a better performer on game days, with a much better character/football intelligence profile.
There are two aspects of the BLUE line that deserve mention, and describe what you typically see in the ideal NFL QB prospect:
1. At that 60 to 100 foot distance ranges, you need to see average velocities in the 50+ mph range. Anything below that is a big red flag.
2. Notice how the function is concaved. This is typical of a strong-armed player that is putting NFL caliber throws on tape at the college level. Guys with NFL caliber arms can maintain that 50 mph average velocity as you stretch out the distance longer and longer. But at some point, velocity breaks downward more steeply because the players have to really ARC the football high in order to get to that distance. The later that inflection point occurs, the more ideal the guy's arm strength is.
One difference between a Drew Anderson and a Carson Wentz, for example, is that I've seen Carson Wentz maintain 49 mph terrestrial speed even on a 140+ foot throw. I haven't seen that of Anderson. Doesn't mean it can't happen. It's just not on tape. That's what private workouts are for.
Last edited:
