So... we kept Grier. Let's take a second look.

[juniorseau55]

Short term, a lot of people would be happier, I guess.
Tua may still develop into a Drew Brees-like QB though, and that would make Grier look better, although it is fair to mention that board sentiment was overwhelmingly in favour of Tua over Herbert at the time, so I find it hard to justify being overly harsh on Grier for that one.
I was in the minority there and took a TON of grief for being anti-Tua. (I still have scars... lol) There are a fair number of posters here who would have come unglued if we had taken Herbert. Tank for Tua, tank for Tua was all we heard for months.

When judging Grier though, I'm going to say again what I have said before... most of his picks are still in the NFL. The fact that some 'failed' here is more of a statement about our coaching than it is about our drafting.
Charles Harris just had 7.5 sacks this year. Prince starts for the Bengals. Minkah AND Tunsil are excellent players for their new teams. Very few of his picks are out of football altogether, and that's rare.

Ultimately, is the personnel that wins you championships that is ultimately judged. We can look at things from an individual standpoint but if these players weren't part of the playoffs, or a championship team then that in my opinion has a different effect. How many years we been struggling with having an offensive line that matters? That to me will keep him from getting better credibility. We don't ever question GM's that bring players, but Grier has been questionably unreliable when putting everything together. Just cause you get a pick right isn't always the end of the argument. He deserves credit for those picks, just not credit for putting a reliable team together. I agree with you, we don't really need to get rid of Grier. We have bigger needs than that. But if he cannot address the same area's of needs then someone will eventually replace him sooner than later.

 

[juniorseau55]

I will say this, this should be Griers last draft if he cannot provide a qb protection.

 

[Goonies]

I've said it once and i'll say it again. The problem in Miami is a coaching problem NOT a talent problem. Grier has drafted quite well but our inability to hire a competent HC has really held this team back. Just look at Waddle. Yeah, he's been excellent and has many receptions but we've turned him into a possession Receiver and far from what he was at Alabama, That's just one example. If we were to hire a decent HC who would bring a half decent Oline coach with him, i'm sure we would see a much better Jackson, Hunt and Eichenberg amongst many others...

Don’t worry I’m on it, my wife is shooting a commercial w Dan Marino and I told her to tell him the dolphins need to hire Doug pederson.

 

[Feverdream]

Ultimately, is the personnel that wins you championships that is ultimately judged. We can look at things from an individual standpoint but if these players weren't part of the playoffs, or a championship team then that in my opinion has a different effect. How many years we been struggling with having an offensive line that matters? That to me will keep him from getting better credibility. We don't ever question GM's that bring players, but Grier has been questionably unreliable when putting everything together. Just cause you get a pick right isn't always the end of the argument. He deserves credit for those picks, just not credit for putting a reliable team together. I agree with you, we don't really need to get rid of Grier. We have bigger needs than that. But if he cannot address the same area's of needs then someone will eventually replace him sooner than later.

As far as I am concerned, Grier's biggest mistake was the hiring of Flores.
Flores seems to be a wonderful Defensive Coordinator, but he lacks the ability (thus far anyway) to be an effective leader of grown men-- letting his ego stand in the way of making quality hires.
From what I've read, Flores was Grier's guy... and THAT I hold against Grier's overall rating in my mind. I'll give Grier this much, when he could see that Flores had shut down, and was now harming Tua's development, he pushed Flores out.
He gets the next hire right... or he'll be out and resurface elsewhere as a player personnel man.

 

[Atila]

Nice summary... I don't think most shrewd posters HATE him... most of us are so exhausted with mediocrity... which is where I put his contribution as a leader.

Chris Grier will certainly do some very nice things... and then he'll get a little too cute and try to "buy low" on guys like the QB from the Cardinals, Will Fuller, the entire RB room, he'll trade our best starting lineman from last year... he'll cut enough veterans that we lose our way for 7 weeks until we get the ship righted...

You can turn around and say "well Flores signed off on all those moves" or "Grier was only doing what his coach wanted" and then it becomes more of the absolving this team for being MEDIOCRE FOR SO LONG. At the end of the day, Chris Grier doesn't have final say?

There are plenty of things Chris Grier does right... and he makes some glaring misses (just like anyone else). I don't think he's exceptionally better over a long period in his entire body of work to show that he stands out above the rest, that he can or has lead a franchise to be consistently solid a la Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England, Green Bay, etc... Indeed, the only thing consistent about this franchise over the past 20 years has been mediocrity.

At the end of the day, he is the GM, he is in charge, and if he wants to continually play down his importance, that he still is the person in charge of cutting and signing guys, on drafting guys, then no one will ever be held accountable, and we'll keep continuing on down this path.

I hope he gets this next coach hire right. I hope his contribution to this franchise starts to consistently be good instead of hit or miss.

 

[Ferretsquig]

Here is what’s random about it. He gutted the team and then hired a defensive head coach knowing he would be drafting a young QB. Who was the guy on the staff who was going to develop that QB? He took three years into his rebuild to finally add a skill position guy to support his young QB. They have an offense with the worst offensive line in the league with no experience, a horrible running game with some of the worst running backs in the league, and one receiver worth a damn. Basically he hung his rookie QB out to dry just like they did with Tannehill when he was in Miami. The QB that he drafted he supposedly has doubts about and was ready to scrap his development for Watson. Now they fire the head coach that he hired because the offense is a mess and yet they are still interviewing defensive coordinators for the open head coaching position. The team is now in a position to have to thread a needle with the head coaching hire. Will the new guy want to change the defensive scheme? Will the players currently on the roster fit the new coach’s scheme? Will they force the new coach to keep a scheme he’s unfamiliar with? Does all this sound like a man with a plan?

I think this is a whole lot of confusing the outcome having the benefit of hindsight with the plan.

It is true they had a horrible offensive line, a single dynamic weapon, and no running game. Was that the truth 6 months ago? I seem to remember having the deepest WR core most fans had ever seen, a young and talented offensive line, and a couple versatile backs that would help augment the passing game. They had an offensive coach that was a delightful departure from the staid and unimaginative Gailey.

Why would you think that Grier saw it any differently?

They had a plan and that plan failed. I'm not a fan of keeping Grier since there have been so many failings during his tenure. That being said throughout this process it has always seemed to be an organization with a clear plan and one I thought was the right approach. After decades of these half hearted rebuilds they finally tore things down completely and rebuilt from scratch. To me the main takeaway from this last three year stretch is that you can build a team in that span of time if you maintain discipline and have the backing of ownership. Of course you still need a whole lot of luck but it is possible.

 

[Marino2.0]

Here’s the problem with Grier. He doesn’t have a long term vision on how to build a team. What are his core principles when it comes to building a team? It just seems so random. It’s another reason why he should have been fired with Flores. He hired Flores. They needed to be on the same page with what type of team they wanted to be and if it failed they should be let go together. Now he is going to have a say in who the next head coach is going to be, and he is going to have to adapt his principles once again to fit the new coach’s desires. It is too difficult to make the constant shifting of direction work. Ross should have fired Grier when he fired Flores, and hired a respected GM, and then let the new GM hire the new head coach who has the same vision and philosophy. These half measures that Ross keeps repeating have led to this dysfunction that never ends.

This is exactly, 100% correct. Grier’s problem is that he’s in charge, but he has no convictions whatsoever. He hires a coach and puts them in control of everything from personnel on down. He doesn’t even have a consistent concept of what he wants in a coach. Adam Gase and Brian Flores had nothing in common except maybe youth. I’m sure our next hire will be a complete departure as well.

 

[Ray R]

As far as I am concerned, Grier's biggest mistake was the hiring of Flores.
Flores seems to be a wonderful Defensive Coordinator, but he lacks the ability (thus far anyway) to be an effective leader of grown men-- letting his ego stand in the way of making quality hires.
From what I've read, Flores was Grier's guy... and THAT I hold against Grier's overall rating in my mind. I'll give Grier this much, when he could see that Flores had shut down, and was now harming Tua's development, he pushed Flores out.
He gets the next hire right... or he'll be out and resurface elsewhere as a player personnel man.

I think it's fair to say Grier was 1/2 right about Flores. The 1/2 he wasn't right about could not have been known at the time of the hire. The problem was corrected at the end of this season.

I think it's certainly fair to see how our next HC performs before complaining about him.

I'm sure the "Lemmings" are loading their "squirt guns" and their "rectal rockets" in preparation for lambasting whomever becomes our next HC.

Since I believe that turnabout is fair play, I'm looking forward to a "Lemming" roast where I take names and become publicly fluent in anti-"Lemming BS".

I am also looking forward to another winning season with my prediction being we will win eleven games (we go 11-6 or better) next year.

Let the "Lemming" negativity begin, or should I say continue - LOL

 

[rickd13]

I think this is a whole lot of confusing the outcome having the benefit of hindsight with the plan.

It is true they had a horrible offensive line, a single dynamic weapon, and no running game. Was that the truth 6 months ago? I seem to remember having the deepest WR core most fans had ever seen, a young and talented offensive line, and a couple versatile backs that would help augment the passing game. They had an offensive coach that was a delightful departure from the staid and unimaginative Gailey.

Why would you think that Grier saw it any differently?

They had a plan and that plan failed. I'm not a fan of keeping Grier since there have been so many failings during his tenure. That being said throughout this process it has always seemed to be an organization with a clear plan and one I thought was the right approach. After decades of these half hearted rebuilds they finally tore things down completely and rebuilt from scratch. To me the main takeaway from this last three year stretch is that you can build a team in that span of time if you maintain discipline and have the backing of ownership. Of course you still need a whole lot of luck but it is possible.

Totally disagree. The only core principle that I see, and I agree with by the way, is that Grier doesn’t believe in drafting a running back in the first round. I said at the time when Miami decided to blow up the roster and start a rebuild. The easy part was trading away assets and adding draft picks. The hard part was going to be rebuilding it back to a championship caliber roster. I go back to the whole idea that Grier knew he was going to be adding a rookie QB. What did he do to set that young guy up for success? He hired a defensive guy, drafted a defensive tackle with his first pick of the rebuild and never added a skill position player in the top half of the draft until year three. The most egregious thing he did during the whole rebuild was right at the beginning. He brought in Ryan Fitzpatrick , and then he trades for a young QB, Josh Rosen, who he really had no conviction on. Why have the veteran QB in the way of playing time and finding out if Rosen could even play in a season they were basically writing off anyway? He says he’s all about acquiring draft picks and then trades them away to move up in the draft. I just don’t see what his big picture view is for the franchise. It looks like he’s just throwing sh*t at the wall and seeing what sticks.

 

[Ray R]

@Feverdream How will Grier's legacy be today had he drafted Herbert?

Depends on who you talk to - LOL

Come on, you knew that all along - LOL

 

[Ferretsquig]

The most egregious thing he did during the whole rebuild was right at the beginning. He brought in Ryan Fitzpatrick , and then he trades for a young QB, Josh Rosen, who he really had no conviction on. Why have the veteran QB in the way of playing time and finding out if Rosen could even play in a season they were basically writing off anyway?

I don't mean to be overly judgmental but you are just making **** up with the benefit of hindsight. I don't think there was a single soul in the Dolphins' front office or in the fan base that wanted Rosen to be a complete failure as a starting QB. They traded for him for the same reason people thought he was worth a first round pick the year before. He was an elite prospect with all the tools you could ask for. Just because they were wrong and he ended up being a miserable failure doesn't mean he was someone they lacked "conviction on".

Fitzpatrick was brought in for the same reason every other team brings in a vet to back up their youthful unknown. Sure we would have all preferred him to be the lovable mentor like Matt Moore but it turns out he was just a mediocre QB that happened to be much better than the other guy in the room. Again, the fact that they couldn't execute on the plan doesn't mean there wasn't one.

 

[rickd13]

I don't mean to be overly judgmental but you are just making **** up with the benefit of hindsight. I don't think there was a single soul in the Dolphins' front office or in the fan base that wanted Rosen to be a complete failure as a starting QB. They traded for him for the same reason people thought he was worth a first round pick the year before. He was an elite prospect with all the tools you could ask for. Just because they were wrong and he ended up being a miserable failure doesn't mean he was someone they lacked "conviction on".

Fitzpatrick was brought in for the same reason every other team brings in a vet to back up their youthful unknown. Sure we would have all preferred him to be the lovable mentor like Matt Moore but it turns out he was just a mediocre QB that happened to be much better than the other guy in the room. Again, the fact that they couldn't execute on the plan doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Then why didn’t they play Rosen and find out what they had in a season they had already decided that they were blowing up their roster and rebuilding? How do the two things they did at QB make sense? Either play the young guy you traded for or don’t bother tearing your roster down. Grier tried to middle it once again. Just freaking admit it. He doesn’t have a grand plan and the guy is a failure at building a team and finding a head coach to lead it.

 

[Ray R]

Then why didn’t they play Rosen and find out what they had in a season they had already decided that they were blowing up their roster and rebuilding? How do the two things they did at QB make sense? Either play the young guy you traded for or don’t bother tearing your roster down. Grier tried to middle it once again. Just freaking admit it. He doesn’t have a grand plan and the guy is a failure at building a team and finding a head coach to lead it.

You are not only beating a dead horse, but your premise for that beating that dead horse is RONG! - LOL

 

[BahamaFinFan78]

If I remember correctly, they switch between Fitzpatrick and Rosen several times

 

[rickd13]

If I remember correctly, they switch between Fitzpatrick and Rosen several times

More proof that they didn’t have a plan.