Stephen Ross Ruined the Franchise

[phins_4_ever]

I'm cool with it.

Clean reset. New QB. Now we'll see if the FO (and "fans) survive another 14 games.

I have no problems with a fan purge. None whatsoever. Especially online. It was such a pleasure yesterday to chat with fans at the stadium yesterday. These are two different worlds.

 

[phins_4_ever]

You shouldn't post in the mains anymore. It's beyond embarrassing at this point.

I don't think you should tell anybody where they can post. And I really do not care if you think my posts are embarrassing or not.
Fact is that there is a difference between rebuilding and tanking. One is going through losing and growing pains while trying to change personnel, philosophy, system and structure while losing on the field is a result of such efforts. While you do these rebuilding efforts you are still trying to win.

The other is "I don't give a ****" and losing intentionally, not caring about scores and results.

I think it is extremely embarrassing for people not to realize the difference between these two philosophies. The latter one is of course very easy to subscribe to because you do not require any kind of though process. It is the simplistic explanation of a rebuilding effort.

You can think whatever you want to. But don't tell others what they should think and if they differ from your thinking you do not tell anybody that they should not post here or anywhere on this site.

You addressed my post and completely failed to address the contents. Instead you attacked the poster rather than the post.

 

[BobDole]

I don't think you should tell anybody where they can post. And I really do not care if you think my posts are embarrassing or not.
Fact is that there is a difference between rebuilding and tanking. One is going through losing and growing pains while trying to change personnel, philosophy, system and structure while losing on the field is a result of such efforts. While you do these rebuilding efforts you are still trying to win.

The other is "I don't give a ****" and losing intentionally, not caring about scores and results.

I think it is extremely embarrassing for people not to realize the difference between these two philosophies. The latter one is of course very easy to subscribe to because you do not require any kind of though process. It is the simplistic explanation of a rebuilding effort.

You can think whatever you want to. But don't tell others what they should think and if they differ from your thinking you do not tell anybody that they should not post here or anywhere on this site.

You addressed my post and completely failed to address the contents. Instead you attacked the poster rather than the post.

The sooner you realize that tanking exists in the NFL and it's what the Dolphins are currently doing, the sooner you'll realize how ridiculous you sound.

Been reading this stuff from a handful of posters for months and now that everything they've been ranting about has been proven to be obviously wrong, they still keep it up. It's weird.

 

[phins_4_ever]

The sooner you realize that tanking exists in the NFL and it's what the Dolphins are currently doing, the sooner you'll realize how ridiculous you sound.

Been reading this stuff from a handful of posters for months and now that everything they've been ranting about has been proven to be obviously wrong, they still keep it up. It's weird.

Sure.

 

[Kdawg954]

Until they start doing this

This will continue to be a rebuild, and the coaching staff will continue to attempt to win games. Unless you can convince me this team could of been properly built to win the last 2 weeks, over the offseason, I approve of the approach. We weren’t good enough and weren’t gonna be good enough unless we hit a reset button. Yes it has been ugly, but honestly it has been expected considering the massive turnover.

Didn’t Baltimore hammer us on national TV 2 years ago? And that was with Suh and a bunch of these dudes.

Good for Ross finally being fed up with the status quo, lets get it right.

 

[Kdawg954]

I have no problems with a fan purge. None whatsoever. Especially online. It was such a pleasure yesterday to chat with fans at the stadium yesterday. These are two different worlds.

This is very true about fans at the stadium, both home and away. It can be polarizing how different the online fan is from the gameday fan.

 

[SkapePhin]

I don't think you should tell anybody where they can post. And I really do not care if you think my posts are embarrassing or not.
Fact is that there is a difference between rebuilding and tanking. One is going through losing and growing pains while trying to change personnel, philosophy, system and structure while losing on the field is a result of such efforts. While you do these rebuilding efforts you are still trying to win.

The other is "I don't give a ****" and losing intentionally, not caring about scores and results.

I think it is extremely embarrassing for people not to realize the difference between these two philosophies. The latter one is of course very easy to subscribe to because you do not require any kind of though process. It is the simplistic explanation of a rebuilding effort.

You can think whatever you want to. But don't tell others what they should think and if they differ from your thinking you do not tell anybody that they should not post here or anywhere on this site.

You addressed my post and completely failed to address the contents. Instead you attacked the poster rather than the post.

I'm curious as to how you can still believe this is a genuine rebuild effort when Grier is purging the team of some of his best draft picks that aren't even 3 years old yet...

I don't believe the coaching staff is intentionally trying to lose, but the FO constructed this team to lose as many games as possible. If I were Flores I'd be pissed at Grier for handicapping him this way, but he seems oddly at peace with it all.

 

[russianbear]

Until they start doing this

This will continue to be a rebuild, and the coaching staff will continue to attempt to win games. Unless you can convince me this team could of been properly built to win the last 2 weeks, over the offseason, I approve of the approach. We weren’t good enough and weren’t gonna be good enough unless we hit a reset button. Yes it has been ugly, but honestly it has been expected considering the massive turnover.

Didn’t Baltimore hammer us on national TV 2 years ago? And that was with Suh and a bunch of these dudes.

Good for Ross finally being fed up with the status quo, lets get it right.

Also I think it needs to be noted that the teams we've played against are far from scrubs.

The Ravens perpetually own us, and the Patriots have been bar none the best defense in the NFL the past 10~ games. Oh, and with Tom Brady, AB, Josh Gordon, etc etc etc

 

[CANDolphan]

Ross is a cheap dude when it come the front office and coaching staff.

Do you remember when Gase wanted hire a better lab coach but Ross wouldn't sign off on the new salary?

Hes cheap period.

As someone with direct experience working for a group that was contracted out by Stephen Ross (not with Dolphins, his real estate holdings down here...), I can assure you he is VERY much a "value needs to trump cost" but he's not someone to say "lowest cost at all times", like a lot of guys are. He spends his money. He had several chances to prove to be a standard developer jerkoff, and he proved not to be. He spent extra money and time to get things done.

He's VERY meticulous, so I can imagine this is destroying him. Look at our tank - everyone says this is how you truly win. You sacrifice a year, you go heavy on picks and you take advantage of people who are desperate. Its what Bill Belichick has been doing forever. Gaming the comp pick system, trading for draft capital. It's genius.

Now we're clearly the worst team in the NFL. We're clearly going to be top 3 --> ignoring any possible plane crash or nuclear event which wipes out several NFL times in one go. We currently have a QB that still is trending upward, and at the very least provides a decent security net for the team's development. We're going to be completely utterly rebuilding, but they've finally figured out what the best franchises did. QB -> MLB -> OT -> Pass Rusher. You top quality guys at these positions. Miami will likely have 5 first round picks in the next 2 drafts, with 4 2nd round picks and likely 4 3rd round picks. That's capital out the wazoo.

He's doing everything from a sound business model perspective - he's just learning you can't fudge the numbers. The results are black and white, and they are on written on the wall.

 

[Kdawg954]

I'm curious as to how you can still believe this is a genuine rebuild effort when Grier is purging the team of some of his best draft picks that aren't even 3 years old yet...

I don't believe the coaching staff is intentionally trying to lose, but the FO constructed this team to lose as many games as possible. If I were Flores I'd be pissed at Grier for handicapping him this way, but he seems oddly at peace with it all.

Which draft picks that aren’t 3 years old?

Tunsil was year 4 of 5 and we jettisoned him and Stills for 2 1sts and a 2nd.

By the same breath we made X the highest paid CB in the NFL, same draft class and that intention was formTunsil as well except we got a massive offer.

Minkah is the one that requested a change of scenery, and he is still on the team and will be until Grier gets an offer that blows him away.

Drake is on an expiring contract and again teams are reaching out to Miami.

And Flores, Grier and Ross all came to an understanding that this is the way it needs to be done. Stop spending funds on washed up FAs and cuts and get your books in order, try to develop young guys, build up a war chest and give it a go in 2020/2021 in fully building a foundation for this team.

 

[SkapePhin]

Which draft picks that aren’t 3 years old?

Tunsil was year 4 of 5 and we jettisoned him and Stills for 2 1sts and a 2nd.

By the same breath we made X the highest paid CB in the NFL, same draft class and that intention was formTunsil as well except we got a massive offer.

Minkah is the one that requested a change of scenery, and he is still on the team and will be until Grier gets an offer that blows him away.

Drake is on an expiring contract and again teams are reaching out to Miami.

And Flores, Grier and Ross all came to an understanding that this is the way it needs to be done. Stop spending funds on washed up FAs and cuts and get your books in order, try to develop young guys, build up a war chest and give it a go in 2020/2021 in fully building a foundation for this team.

Look at my sig. The best players from this draft, other than X, have all been traded, or linked to be traded imminently (Minkah and Drake). Then, of the average (yellow) players, some are on the verge of being red, and likely will be gone after the season. This is a dumpster fire.

They could have still done poorly while trying to build up the OL for example through the draft so that it would help them evaluate Rosen and be set up to be decent if Rosen fails and a new QB comes in. Not only did they not do that, they seem to have intentionally set up for completely failure by trading away Tunsil right before the season.

The Patriots built an ELITE OL entirely through the draft in nearly less than 4 years. The Dolphins have managed to create the worst OL in franchise history in that time span.

 

[Kdawg954]

Look at my sig. The best players from this draft, other than X, have all been traded, or linked to be traded imminently (Minkah and Drake). Then, of the average (yellow) players, some are on the verge of being red, and likely will be gone after the season. This is a dumpster fire.

They could have still done poorly while trying to build up the OL for example through the draft so that it would help them evaluate Rosen and be set up to be decent if Rosen fails and a new QB comes in. Not only did they not do that, they seem to have intentionally set up for completely failure by trading away Tunsil right before the season.

The Patriots built an ELITE OL entirely through the draft in nearly less than 4 years. The Dolphins have managed to create the worst OL in franchise history in that time span.

Was on mobile so i could not see your signature.

Well like I told people in VIP chat, how you feel about Grier is depended on what route you want to take in assessing blame.

Personally after watching Tannenbaum and Gase operate outside of this team, there will be no convincing me that the titled GM had any real authority or accountability when it came to roster management and even final decisions on draft day. The other 2 guys both held more weight in that room.

2019 is in fact the first real time we can definitively say that Chris Grier is calling all the shots. From the HC selection, to who he surrounds himself with, to how this roster is being built (draft/FA).

What I can definitively tell you is, Tannenbaum/Gase both would of gotten taken to the woodshed from a value perspective when it comes to Tannehill, Tunsil,etc . . . And in fact they would of doubled down on the status quo to attempt to save their asses and we once again live in the same groundhogs day cycle we have lived in for 20 years.

The approach is so different and so refreshing that I feel my thought process on it seems more logical because we just havent seen the team operate like sharks from a value perspective. We get taken, constantly.

So instead of raging, I am looking at the defintives . . . And I can say Chris Grier is handling himself very well and like a guy who has the blessings of the owner to tear it down and build it back up.

Maybe Ross is using Flo and Grier as fall guys to hire someone else . . . I cant think that far ahead and it becomes to speculative to back an agenda that I just dont have.

 

[SkapePhin]

Was on mobile so i could not see your signature.

Well like I told people in VIP chat, how you feel about Grier is depended on what route you want to take in assessing blame.

Personally after watching Tannenbaum and Gase operate outside of this team, there will be no convincing me that the titled GM had any real authority or accountability when it came to roster management and even final decisions on draft day. The other 2 guys both held more weight in that room.

2019 is in fact the first real time we can definitively say that Chris Grier is calling all the shots. From the HC selection, to who he surrounds himself with, to how this roster is being built (draft/FA).

What I can definitively tell you is, Tannenbaum/Gase both would of gotten taken to the woodshed from a value perspective when it comes to Tannehill, Tunsil,etc . . . And in fact they would of doubled down on the status quo to attempt to save their asses and we once again live in the same groundhogs day cycle we have lived in for 20 years.

The approach is so different and so refreshing that I feel my thought process on it seems more logical because we just havent seen the team operate like sharks from a value perspective. We get taken, constantly.

So instead of raging, I am looking at the defintives . . . And I can say Chris Grier is handling himself very well and like a guy who has the blessings of the owner to tear it down and build it back up.

Maybe Ross is using Flo and Grier as fall guys to hire someone else . . . I cant think that far ahead and it becomes to speculative to back an agenda that I just dont have.

My problem is this, of the Tannebaum-Grier-Gase trifecta, Grier was the talent evaluator. Tannenbaum appeared to let him handle the draft outside of making terrible draft day trades, which I account to Tannenbaum. And of those drafts, only ONE pro bowl player has been drafted, and the rest are either very, very average or just terrible. That is not a good indicator of that talent evaluators ability.

And for Grier to trade away the actual good players he got out of those drafts, whether he was the one picking or not, is just not a sound strategy with a successful historical precedent IMO. Good teams are built through the draft and RETAIN those players. Bad teams jettison their talent from the draft before ever resigning them.

Given the history, I just can't trust Grier to rebuild this thing after intentionally setting up the team for failure by ridding it of even the small amount of talent he acquired in the past 4 drafts.

 

[Rowdy1972]

@andyahs is right though. The biggest whiners is in fact the tanking group (with a handful of exception).
I am not sure what @andyahs thinks but it is still not a tank. A tank requires an intention of losing. They are trying to get better. On defense they got much better from week 1 to 2. Now problem is the offense. If Flores wakes up and makes a change it may actually become an offense rather than being offensive.
It is a process. Step by step.

Hahaha dig that hole deeper.

 

[Kdawg954]

My problem is this, of the Tannebaum-Grier-Gase trifecta, Grier was the talent evaluator. Tannenbaum appeared to let him handle the draft outside of making terrible draft day trades, which I account to Tannenbaum. And of those drafts, only ONE pro bowl player has been drafted, and the rest are either very, very average or just terrible. That is not a good indicator of that talent evaluators ability.

And for Grier to trade away the actual good players he got out of those drafts, whether he was the one picking or not, is just not a sound strategy with a successful historical precedent IMO. Good teams are built through the draft and RETAIN those players. Bad teams jettison their talent from the draft before ever resigning them.

Given the history, I just can't trust Grier to rebuild this thing after intentionally setting up the team for failure by ridding it of even the small amount of talent he acquired in the past 4 drafts.

All of it is speculation on your part though. You don’t know if Grier made those selctions or even vouched for those players. You are taking a guess, utilizing beat writers and speculation, to fuel your own feelings. You really don’t know how any of it went down.

I am taking an educated Guess that watching Gase and Tannenbaum away from Miami, and how they operate, Chris Grier had little input in the final decision. One was the VP and the other was in charge of the roster . . . It was inepitude by Ross with that setup, no question, and he has seemed to learn from it.

We always talk about foresight. Extending guys early, knowing when you have value.

1. Grier extended X early

2. They were working on a Tunsil extension and Houston came to them with an offer they couldn't refuse. Stop saying they gave guys away. This was a no brainer trade, a huge value win, and continue to pout about it just makes no sense. Houston is desperate, they think they can win now because they have the QB, WR, pass rusher and what has derailed them has been the QB getting hurt so they went all in.

3. The history is now. We know he is running the show, and it has been many more times impressive than Gase/Tannenbaum/Ireland thus far. Certainly he has to prove it in April but I like what I have seen.

Its like watching Jason Sanders kick, first few times I covered my eyes because our kicking game hasnt been that consistent . . . Now I have full confidence in the kid. I watched Grier sit at the table this offseason and play elite chess and understanding value, so if he jettisons Minkah, I feel comfortable knowing we didn’t get took . . . A confidence I never had with these other dunces.