The most important aspect of a franchise IS SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT, ABOVE ALL!! Coaches DO NOT bring playoff success!!

[BlueFin]

Yes, coaches have something to contribute and manage, but they are NOT the reason a team wins or loses. It's the players on the roster. Period. And who decides the fates of a franchise? The scouts/draft/talent evaluators. They are the ones that fill the roster with pro bowlers that carry you to a SB. Coaches do NOT bring playoff success.

Seahawks/Pete Carroll - won a SB in 2014. What has he done since then? If he's such a great coach, why did the Seahawks only win 7 games this year? Why did he get elimianted in the 1st round of the playoffs last year? Why isn't he achieving more success? COACHES DONT BRING PLAYOFF SUCCESS. PLAYERS DO!!

Steelers/Mike Tomlin - He got the 1 super bowl in 2009. That's 13 years ago. Hasn't won anything since. This season, MIKE TOMLIN won THE SAME AMOUNT OF GAMES AS BRIAN FLORES... 9 games this year. NO DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF GAMES WON, BETWEEN A SUPER BOWL "HOF" COACH IN MIKE TOMLIN, AND A BRIAN FLORES.

Buccaneers/Bruce Arians - He finally wins a Super bowl. Why? Because the Buccaneers hit on their draft picks and talent evaluations. They drafted Chris Godwin. They drafted Mike Evans. Drafted Devin White. Drafted Winfield Jr. And on and on. They picked up an unwanted Shaq Barrett as an incredible FA signing. The team was loaded with talent, that it was attractive enough to lure the missing piece - a QB. Suddenly they are SB Champs. What was the main cause? Not Tom Brady. But the Buccaneers DRAFT/SCOUTS!

Patriots/Bellichick - Brady leaves NE, Pats are stuck with Newton, and Bellichick misses the playoffs. Then he drafts a competent rookie QB and is now back in the playoffs as a Wild card, but will likely be eliminated quickly.


THE COACHES DO NOT WIN GAMES. ONLY PLAYERS DO. THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF A FRANCHISE IS THE SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT. PERIOD. It is they who hit on draft picks, it is the talent evaluators who find pro bowlers in the free agent scrap heap, who make your team good, who hit on a QB, hit on a CB, hit on DE's, who pick Justin Herbet over Tua..... etc... and suddenly almost any random coach starts winning with great players.

The problem with the Miami Dolphins was NOT Brian Flores. He actually is a very good defensive mind, and we put up a winning season. He was actually AGAINST picking Tua!

We just need MORE talent on the field.

COACHES DO NOT MAGICALLY BRING PLAYOFF SUCCESS. NO COACHING CHANGE WILL FIX ANYTHING. Brian Flores was fine.

What we need is a COMPLETE BOWEL MOVEMENT OF THE SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT. I don't care how long they been there. Bring in young, 30 yr old ex college players or something.

You can scream all you want…Bum Phillips summed it up in describing Don Shula……

“He can take his’n and beat Your’n…or he can take your’n and beat his’n”

If you think the head coach and staff he assembles are not important to winning?

You don’t have a clue!

 

[marino13zach54]

Coaches can make a huge difference. In teaching techniques, time management ECT. Flo was horrible at time management. To say they don't make a difference is beyond dumb

Hey, Coach. I believe the man wrote in his first sentence that coaches can contribute, not that they don’t make a difference.

See how I just tried to coach you how to read? Think you won’t make the same mistake again? Highly doubtful.

What ages do you coach? Have you ever tried to coach a grown arse man that if he didn’t play pee wee ball has at least 7 years of improper technique ingrained in him?

As well as, do you know a special technique that NO COACH IN THE NFL knows? Do you have a dirty little hand placement, feet movement secret that only you can coach? No? Why am I not surprised?

Could it be that EVERY technique in the football lexicon is known by any coach worth his grain of salt? There’s a Webster dictionary of football, bro. It’s all in the book for everyone to learn. So is coaching something you and I can read about and demonstrate to a person and it’s up to that player to practice, train, practice and then train again or is it the coaches Harry Potter’s whistle that grants success?

Coaches have little to do with breaking improper technique other than to bust a player’s balls over and over and over and over again in practice until he gets it right. My mother can do that.

I’ll give you time management. That’s all on a HC. But name me a famous HC that hasn’t won without a superstar? Give me a Don Shula championship team that didn’t have a player above and beyond all others.

Where is our superstar? We can’t draft one. We can’t trade for one. That’s on the HC?

And how’s this for an idea.., HOW ABOUT DRAFTING PROPERLY TRAINED STUDS? Too much to ask? We are, after all, the Dolphins so I guess it may be.

Get in a lab and create a Frankenstein HC of Shula, Belicheat, Halas & Lombardi and give them a 19 points per game offense in this era of football, see what they win you.

 

[marino13zach54]

oh boy…. this will not age well. you can hire the best talent at a company but if theirs no vision then it will fail. the leadership a head coach brings is needed. and they make game day decisions that will either lead a team to victory or a loss. it’s a team sport. everyone has their part to play.

This I can agree with. That’s a HC’s job. To bring his team together and get his staff on the same page week by week ready to outplay and outsmart the opposition.

 

[marino13zach54]

His argument is coaching does not matter so according to his flawed logic it doesn't matter the coach or his staff.

Another failed English major. The very first sentence states that coaches do contribute.

What do you hyperbolic people think you bring to a discussion? My unborn child knows coaching is important. The OP knows that coaching is important.

Is it AS IMPORTANT AS THE PLAYERS ON THE FIELD?

The answer is not debatable.

 

[andyahs]

Another failed English major. The very first sentence states that coaches do contribute.

What do you hyperbolic people think you bring to a discussion? My unborn child knows coaching is important. The OP knows that coaching is important.

Is it AS IMPORTANT AS THE PLAYERS ON THE FIELD?

The answer is not debatable.

He has edited his post and title several times since he first posted this. Has nothing to do english or reading comprehension but carry on.

 

[marino13zach54]

Got it, Don Shula meant nothing to our organization.....

Read up Griese and Marino. It was all Shula all the time.

 

[JEDIJ007]

Yes but playing musical chairs with the coaches WILL NOT FIX IT.

Do you think Bruce Arians is an amazing coach or something? Yet they won a Super Bowl last season.

Why?

Because their draft/scout department filled their roster with so much talent, it was just waiting for Tom Brady to show up as QB and take them to the promised land.


They won because of their drafting of Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, etc.

Godwin was selected by the Buccaneers in the third round with the 84th overall pick in the draft
Evans with the seventh overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft
Devin White, first round with the fifth overall pick of the 2019 NFL Draft.
Winfield Jr, 45th overall pick in the second round of the 2020 NFL Draft.

then their talent evaluators did some great free agent moves with Shaq Barrett, etc.


THIS is why they won the SB. Not because of Bruce Arians.

lol. so you could have coached that team and they would have won a superbowl? highly doubt it. talent doesn’t always win out. look at the nc state vs houston ncaa basketball game. which team was more talented. and who won? coaching matters.

 

[FanSince93]

 

[The Bopkin]

What did Shula do in the playoffs from 1975 to 1995?

From 1975 to 1995, in that 20 year span, Don Shula missed the playoffs ten (10) times. He was 50/50 on reaching the playoffs or not. And that was with a HOF QB from 1983-1995.

But he won 2 super bowls in the 1970s, right? Yeah, because our roster had the talent required to do that.


Why didn't the Dolphins win any SB's after those 70s teams? Because our roster was not good enough. After drafting Dan Marino, we had the worst draft stretch from 1985-1992 in the NFL.

I respect your point.
George Wilson had a lot of those same players before Shula got here, and he didn't win a thing.
Shula took the same players to the pinnacle.
My point was, with mediocre players, Shula still got to the playoffs, with some regularity. Given the same players, would Philbin have? Would Gase have? I know we have to speculate the answer, but Shula sure got a lot out of what he had.
The OP stated that (I paraphrase) coaches don't matter- it's the players. I agree- you need great players. But look at what Belicheck does with less talent than a lot of other coaches. Granted, he had Brady, but surrounding Brady, he didn't have tons of hall of famers. Gronkowski. Any other hall of famers on offense? I have a tough time getting behind the thesis, "coaches don't matter". Why would teams keep replacing them then?
Also, just a footnote to the nugget about Shula missing the playoffs 10 times from 1975 to 1995- you are correct, but remember- 1976 was a re-tool/re-build year with an injury riddled team. Also, in the 70s, fewer teams made the playoffs. In 1975 Shula ended at 10-4 and missed out due to tiebreakers with the Colts. In 1977, he was 11-5, same deal with the Patriots. If you want to compare Shula's playoff appearances to current coaches, like Tomlin, it's apples to oranges.

 

[FanSince93]

I respect your point.
George Wilson had a lot of those same players before Shula got here, and he didn't win a thing.
Shula took the same players to the pinnacle.
My point was, with mediocre players, Shula still got to the playoffs, with some regularity. Given the same players, would Philbin have? Would Gase have? I know we have to speculate the answer, but Shula sure got a lot out of what he had.
The OP stated that (I paraphrase) coaches don't matter- it's the players. I agree- you need great players. But look at what Belicheck does with less talent than a lot of other coaches. Granted, he had Brady, but surrounding Brady, he didn't have tons of hall of famers. Gronkowski. Any other hall of famers on offense? I have a tough time getting behind the thesis, "coaches don't matter". Why would teams keep replacing them then?
Also, just a footnote to the nugget about Shula missing the playoffs 10 times from 1975 to 1995- you are correct, but remember- 1976 was a re-tool/re-build year with an injury riddled team. Also, in the 70s, fewer teams made the playoffs. In 1975 Shula ended at 10-4 and missed out due to tiebreakers with the Colts. In 1977, he was 11-5, same deal with the Patriots. If you want to compare Shula's playoff appearances to current coaches, like Tomlin, it's apples to oranges.

Shula did not take the same players to the pinnacle.

In Shula's first year, the Dolphins traded for Pro Bowl HOF WR Paul Warfield.
They drafted Pro Bowlers in Jake Scott.
They also drafted Pro Bowler Tim Foley.
Drafted Jim Mandich.
Signed Doug Swift, who was a very good starter for the Dolphins from 1970 through the super bowl years.

As the years went by, the Dolphins added more talent.

That is how Shula won. They had a string of very good player evaluations, they hit on multiple Pro Bowl players in the NFL draft.... and then they hit on their trades and they hit on their signings. This is what setup those Super Bowl wins.


Shula couldn't win jack when he couldn't get the players he needed. Even with Marino under center.

 

[djphinfan]

Why can't he know more than the GM? This is why some coaches run personnel. Someone who played football, coached and mentored by BB from film coordinator all the way up the line probably is more inclined to make personnel decisions than most GM's.

Ok, when you get the job you have to opine for that. To have complete control as a GM

What I’m saying is if the GM hired you then you need to acquiesce to him when it comes to your roster..

The relationship will never survive unless the head coach understand that he needs to allow the GM make the final call on the player added.

Also imo the Likelihood of a head coach being great at both coaching and evaluating talent is slim

Really is two different skill sets

We also know that Flores got rid of three players that in hindsight we’re bad moves

No reason at all to fire Vannoy, Karras, Flowers….0

So those are three example of how bad he was at evaluating talent relative to what his roster was

 

[Finsfan1984]

Coaches don’t matter? Can’t believe I’m reading this, bc it’s complete BS. Stop posting crap like this, or just stop posting period… please!

 

[Coach_Rob]

Hey, Coach. I believe the man wrote in his first sentence that coaches can contribute, not that they don’t make a difference.

See how I just tried to coach you how to read? Think you won’t make the same mistake again? Highly doubtful.

What ages do you coach? Have you ever tried to coach a grown arse man that if he didn’t play pee wee ball has at least 7 years of improper technique ingrained in him?

As well as, do you know a special technique that NO COACH IN THE NFL knows? Do you have a dirty little hand placement, feet movement secret that only you can coach? No? Why am I not surprised?

Could it be that EVERY technique in the football lexicon is known by any coach worth his grain of salt? There’s a Webster dictionary of football, bro. It’s all in the book for everyone to learn. So is coaching something you and I can read about and demonstrate to a person and it’s up to that player to practice, train, practice and then train again or is it the coaches Harry Potter’s whistle that grants success?

Coaches have little to do with breaking improper technique other than to bust a player’s balls over and over and over and over again in practice until he gets it right. My mother can do that.

I’ll give you time management. That’s all on a HC. But name me a famous HC that hasn’t won without a superstar? Give me a Don Shula championship team that didn’t have a player above and beyond all others.

Where is our superstar? We can’t draft one. We can’t trade for one. That’s on the HC?

And how’s this for an idea.., HOW ABOUT DRAFTING PROPERLY TRAINED STUDS? Too much to ask? We are, after all, the Dolphins so I guess it may be.

Get in a lab and create a Frankenstein HC of Shula, Belicheat, Halas & Lombardi and give them a 19 points per game offense in this era of football, see what they win you.

cute. questioning my profession... you need a hug. i get paid to coach the game. I know a little about it and how it works. thanks for coaching me to read. my degrees didnt do that. im sure your english or whatever super cool degree program did that for, so you can think you are high and mighty and become a keyboard gangster.

question me all you want sweetie.

OP ALSO EDIt HIS POST DICK!! (pretty much an hour after his post) yay i CAN read!!

so please before you get on here being a dick to myself and other posters, you should probably read where the op's replied to me not to focus on the phrase "nothing to do with it" which was origanilly posted. Maybe just maybe collect your facts before jumping to conclusions. there is an edit option that the op clearly decided to use, since he himself realized what he said was wrong.

ask players if coaches dont matter. its wrong. 4 things go into making a good squad. find the right guys, find the right coaches, find the right s/c team, and create the right scheme for those players to be successful.
coaches have to put all of that together and make it work.

Coaches can coach the same thing a million different ways. and some coaches are going to make sure its done their way or you just dont play. which is one reason serveral players didnt like flo.

 

[Kamelion4291]

The fans who scream that a team has no talent and blame the personnel department are the fans who are incapable of understanding that the talent looks bad because the coaching is bad.

 

[Soxfinatic]

Ok, when you get the job you have to opine for that. To have complete control as a GM

What I’m saying is if the GM hired you then you need to acquiesce to him when it comes to your roster..

The relationship will never survive unless the head coach understand that he needs to allow the GM make the final call on the player added.

Also imo the Likelihood of a head coach being great at both coaching and evaluating talent is slim

Really is two different skill sets

We also know that Flores got rid of three players that in hindsight we’re bad moves

No reason at all to fire Vannoy, Karras, Flowers….0

So those are three example of how bad he was at evaluating talent relative to what his roster was

I don't disagree with your part of the argument on the complete control. I think the three you mentioned were cut for financial reasons, especially Van Noy.