The Tua-point conversion

[NBP81]

so flores says they practiced this play all week, and drake says they did, but with a different running back.

hmmmm....

Is Drake's strategy for catching a ball different for each particular play or....?

 

[Rev Kev]

A lot of complaining on the play call. Literally have seen NE, among other teams, pull off the same play call successfully on the goal line many times. It wasn’t executed, from blocking to the catch. But the play call wasn’t as bad as some are making it out to be. Riding too much on the outcome.

NE rubs and picks the Defenders
If Mia was trying a NE -
Then they had guys out of place becaus that was terrible no pick no rub just nothing - running the Reciever towards would be tacklers - atrocious

 

[Rev Kev]

I personally liked that they went for the win. Fins had nothing to lose by going for it. Like someone said earlier that play is a staple in the NE offense. However between Geseike and Preston, a fade may have worked. Fades never really worked for the Fins in the past but those guys can jump.

Nothing to lose but the first OA - oh brother

 

[royalshank]

You guys are nuts.

First off, JAX and DEN both made the same decision a few weeks ago.

JAX was on the road against HOU, while DEN did it at home against CHI and converted to take a 14-13 lead with :31 remaining. Of course they ended up losing on a last second FG, but they still made the same choice as the home team nonetheless.

So the decision is far from unprecedented.

Secondly, if the Dolphins players and coaches were actively attempting to lose, then how do you explain the QB change in the 2nd half that sparked the team or the fact that they scored the last second TD to even set the stage for a possible win?

You guys are seeing something that wasn’t there.

Yeah good point about the QB change. I still don’t like the 2 pt attempt there unless you are a massive underdog / playing the Pats or something. W the new OT rules and the lack of scoring in the game, I’d like to see Flores play that differently. So perhaps we weren’t “trying” to lose. If that’s the case the. I don’t support what he called there. Put it this way, could you see BB or Harbaugh or Shula doing that under the same circumstances / opponent / home field / low scoring game? I don’t think they would ever do that. So it would make me question Flores decision making process / game management. On the other hand perhaps he was just trying to say to his team, “screw it. Let’s be aggressive” in order to plant a seed in the name of culture change. IDK anymore. I truly cannot wait until this season is over and we are on to the draft. And here’s to hoping Tom Brady gets caught at the Orchids of Asia Day Spa in the off-season.

 

[Blake the great]

Wrong. First teams don't do this all the time. If you can somehow find a stat that proves that I would be surprised. Secondly, as far as the decision to go for it. All the momentum of the final quarter was in the fins favor and there was no strategical advantage to try and win there. Tie the game and take the momentum into OT where it isn't a binary choice of win/lose.

The decision to go for two with the skillsets of this team was an asanine play call, this the outcome we got.

Agree to disagree.

 

[E30M3]

Teams might not do this all the time, but the data suggests they absolutely should... If you just compile every 4th and goal from the 5 or less for the last 10 years to get a decent sample size... 12 teams have a better than 75% success rate and 24 teams have a 60%+ success rate... Much better than a coinflip...

Well 4th and goal is not the same as a two point conversion for one. Also most 4th and goals do not have the game on the line and even if they do you still have the extra point or two point conversion to take care of so it's not a valid comparison. Sure from a sheer yards to score that may be the only valid comparison, I guess I can give you that.

Lastly your example doesn't take into account momentum. Driving the entire length of the field to score the tying touchdown only to botch the comeback with a stupidly designed play is not the same, like atall.

 

[Rowdy1972]

Another dumb response. The original point was no one on this board is qualified to make that decision whether its Tua or not. I get its a message forum full of opinions and that's great, we all have them, but none of us are qualified to scout a QB as much as an NFL GM. However if you read the posts here you would think there are NFL scouts here posting. If he's actually considered the "best" among NFL GM circles by all means draft him, but I'm not listening to some keyboard commando who watches tv on Saturday making that determination. That was the original point. If you took the time to read the thread you would've gotten it instead of just jumping in.

The bears GM took Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes. Shithead traded up for Trubisky. I’m not gonna bow down and kiss the ring of any GM unless he’s proven.

 

[NBP81]

Well 4th and goal is not the same as a two point conversion for one. Also most 4th and goals do not have the game on the line and even if they do you still have the extra point or two point conversion to take care of so it's not a valid comparison. Sure from a sheer yards to score that may be the only valid comparison, I guess I can give you that.

Lastly your example doesn't take into account momentum. Driving the entire length of the field to score the tying touchdown only to botch the comeback with a stupidly designed play is not the same, like atall.

4th and goal from 5 or less involves the same kind of plays as the 2 point conversion and both involve the offense having to run a single play with no further strategical implications. Having "the game on the line" doesnt change anything to the isolated situation. You have one play to make a TD from inside the 5 yard line.

What you're implying is that the offense would be better(or worst) because "the game is on the line" as if the opposing defense wouldnt "try harder because the game is on the line" or whatever your point is.... The fact is, when a team is faced with a final play close to the goal line, this is what their success rate is...

Also... Momentum + Ryan Fitzpatrick =...



And I agree that the playcall was crap, Im not arguing against that at all.

 

[dnespins]

Is Drake's strategy for catching a ball different for each particular play or....?

even if he catches it he doesnt get in. the timing and spacing of this play is critical. ive seen it run 3 or 4 times now. all others (pats vikes cowboys) used a WR and ran it slightly diffrent. what happened is what i'd expect would happen to most RBs the first time they try to execute it. it was a cluster****.

 

[brumdog44]

Going to call that play in a SB?

Seattle called a worse one....and he had Marshawn Lynch in his backfield.

 

[brumdog44]

Bad teams force offbeat play calling sometimes. It's not like we had a Superbowl caliber team with say Marshawn Lynch, the second best back in the history of the league at getting you 2 yards when you need it regardless of contact, but then decided to try and win the Superbowl by passing the ball in traffic where it could be picked off. If that were the case I might start to believe in conspiracies.

Absolutely. Would people have been happy if we had instead thrown a fade to a stud receiver that we don’t have? Or have our slow old quarterback run an RPO?

 

[brumdog44]

Part of a coach's job is to understand the strength and weaknesses of your own team and the opposing team. Running a play like that behind a historically bad OL against a Skins DL that is the strength of their team is just flat stupid and had almost no shot of being successful.

We have strengths?

 

[Rev Kev]

We have strengths?

Losing is our strength - trust the process

 

[EJay]

Yeah good point about the QB change. I still don’t like the 2 pt attempt there unless you are a massive underdog / playing the Pats or something. W the new OT rules and the lack of scoring in the game, I’d like to see Flores play that differently. So perhaps we weren’t “trying” to lose. If that’s the case the. I don’t support what he called there. Put it this way, could you see BB or Harbaugh or Shula doing that under the same circumstances / opponent / home field / low scoring game? I don’t think they would ever do that. So it would make me question Flores decision making process / game management. On the other hand perhaps he was just trying to say to his team, “screw it. Let’s be aggressive” in order to plant a seed in the name of culture change. IDK anymore. I truly cannot wait until this season is over and we are on to the draft. And here’s to hoping Tom Brady gets caught at the Orchids of Asia Day Spa in the off-season.

I’ve read that the players loved the decision. As the underdog that trailed all game and also considering the odds/percentages that others have pointed out, I believe it was the right move.

I can only speculate what Shula or another coach would have done. Shula wasn’t in position to make those decisions often since 2 point conversions only became an option the last couple seasons of his coaching career. And conventional wisdom has been changing over the past decade or so.

if Shula had a team like this one, he may have opted to do the same. We’ll never know. But we do know a couple current coaches have already made the same decision just this season. Typically it’s advantageous for the underdog to try to win it outright if/when the opportunity presents Itself.

While the play call looked bad because it didn’t come close to working, it‘s doubtful anyone would be questioning it if it had worked. As others have noted, other teams have run that play successfully in similar situations.

 

[mrbunglez]

The play call, pass, and catch; had don't score written all over it. Even if Drake did catch that ball he wasn't getting in the endzone. It looked like it was designed to look like they had every intention of winning the game just to show what this team is capable of, but the right amount of suck to embrace the tank.