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This Is A 10 Win Team If The Ol Could Even Play Mediocre

We may be a 10 win team with a better OL, but we would be a SB if we also had a QB. Defense is the best we have had in a long time.
 
LoneStarPhin said:
yeah! Losing 3 starters from your OL should mean SQUAT! you people and your EXCUSES!!!

Seriously, the second-worst part of our injury situation is that it emboldens the absolute know-nothings to show their face again (i mean other than in game threads where they rise like a maggot from doo-doo whenever there is a bad play.)

OP- i agree w sentiment about Gase not building better depth in OL.
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Thanks, Lonestar.

It's been so obvious for so long. I called it before season that we would only go as far as the OL held up.

What if, instead of say, three draft picks for a terrible WR that wasn't even a position of need, Miami had spent those three draft picks on OL -- best availabe re: explosion, strength, balance, and upside (even if raw -- real talent valued) -- and spent the last three years developing this kind of UPSIDE at depth OL? That's the way great teams constantly develop crucial UNITS, OL and DL. Then, when starters go down, as THEY ALWAYS DO, the players coming in are high upside, and in many cases, players like this outperform starters with more experience but perhaps less talent.

I've called for this kind of development for years. And any real Coach or GM who values UNIT play would do the same. And don't say that it's not possible with limited draft picks. It's totally possible. All you need is to value the unit and be able to draft on position upside: explosion, strength, balance, etc. Just in one difference of draft pick -- Carroo -- Miami could have gone a long way toward fixing OL depth. IF they had the right valuation of unit and the ability to even slightly perceive OL talent and potential.

Just a for instance.

Miami has screwed this season by having ZERO ability to value, analyze, and acquire OL talent. Your backups come in an grade out at 12-30 -- what kind of mockery is this?

And people have the temerity to put this on RT17 -- the one guy who has borne the brunt of bottom-dwelling OL play his whole career!

Every time RT17 has gotten mediocre or better play from the OL, the team has one of the highest win rates in the NFL.

People have no clue on how the game of FOOTBALL is an interlocking puzzle of 11 pieces, especially when talking unit play.

Sad that this season is gonna be flushed by Gase's inability to value OL, once again. And this is not just Gase, btw. GASE is just the latest iteration of Miami coaches who thinks that anyone at all can play the position, just because he says so. Gase is just Philbin 2.0 on the OL -- Philbin with his "he played well in snapshots" OL valuation. So sad.

LD
 
And if they suck....it’ll be what the 7th straight season derailed by terrible offensive line play? At some point I’m just gonna find a team with a good o-line and start watching them every Sunday just to maintain some sanity.
 
maralieus said:
And if they suck....it’ll be what the 7th straight season derailed by terrible offensive line play? At some point I’m just gonna find a team with a good o-line and start watching them every Sunday just to maintain some sanity.
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It's a never ending Groundhog Day horror movie. And some of us have been screaming for YEARS exactly what I stated -- how to draft, analyze, acquire, develop -- re: OL unit play.

LD
 
Tunsil and James have both missed significant time to injuries yet somebody thought it was a good idea to make Sam Young the swing tackle. Why did we release Eric Smith?
 
Fine, continue pouring resources into the O-line. I'm okay with adding more depth and devoting a draft pick or two to building it. That won't change the shitty playcalling, lack of discipline (penalties), and poor play by other positions, including QB.

If you only watch Dolphins games, I can see how it looks like our QB is getting slaughtered, particularly when you can only compare it to how shitty our pass rush is on the other side. When you've only seen 8 sacks all year by our defense, the 2 or 3 sacks our line allows (sometimes not alone) per game seems like a crazy amount. It's not. It's middle of the road in the league. It doesn't help when the QB doesn't handle pressure well, as evidenced by the helmet bouncer against Cincy.
 
In Gase's defense they FINALLY seemed to address the Oline this offseason, and if healthy they were actually good. I agree this could be a 10 win team if the Oline is above avg. We clearly didn't do enough to add QUALITY depth, which is something they should have been building over the past few years so guys had time to develop.

Injuries are making the NFL hard to watch for multiple fan bases, just the number of ACL tears 1/4 of the way thru the season is mind boggling.

I think Tannehill is an above avg talent when he has good blocking in front of him. I also think he is a below avg QB when the Oline is avg-poor. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, but making plays under pressure is not his strongsuit, so I expect him and the offense to remain poor until this line is fixed.
 
Jay131866 said:
In Gase's defense they FINALLY seemed to address the Oline this offseason, and if healthy they were actually good. I agree this could be a 10 win team if the Oline is above avg. We clearly didn't do enough to add QUALITY depth, which is something they should have been building over the past few years so guys had time to develop.

Injuries are making the NFL hard to watch for multiple fan bases, just the number of ACL tears 1/4 of the way thru the season is mind boggling.

I think Tannehill is an above avg talent when he has good blocking in front of him. I also think he is a below avg QB when the Oline is avg-poor. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, but making plays under pressure is not his strongsuit, so I expect him and the offense to remain poor until this line is fixed.
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The gap between how he does with protection vs how he does under pressure was the largest in the league in 2016 (imagine it's about the same now). QBs are going to face pressure. Not as much as they once did because of rule changes, but it's going to happen. They have to be able to handle it.
 
Jay131866 said:
In Gase's defense they FINALLY seemed to address the Oline this offseason, and if healthy they were actually good. I agree this could be a 10 win team if the Oline is above avg. We clearly didn't do enough to add QUALITY depth, which is something they should have been building over the past few years so guys had time to develop.

Injuries are making the NFL hard to watch for multiple fan bases, just the number of ACL tears 1/4 of the way thru the season is mind boggling.

I think Tannehill is an above avg talent when he has good blocking in front of him. I also think he is a below avg QB when the Oline is avg-poor. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, but making plays under pressure is not his strongsuit, so I expect him and the offense to remain poor until this line is fixed.
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Good level headed post.
 
Even with a good oline our offensive output was mediocre at its best. It doesn't take a telescope to see that we are not, and were not consistently driving down the football field and converting third downs (at least that one we have a stat on). Is mediocre enough to win football games? Sure. Is it enough to win 10 games on an easy schedule? Maybe.

Is it enough to win meaningful games on the road and make real playoff runs? I highly doubt it.

We have a bad offensive line, no doubt, but I'm not sure average oline play somehow elevates us to a top tier team. Just my opinion.
 
So far the OL HAS been mediocre. Tannehill has had an average amount of hits/time to throw this season by comparison to other teams. He’s just generally sucked like he has for most of his career. Not really a huge surprise to me. We've spent 1st rd picks and money on o-line every year. Maybe the qb sucks too?? Could that be possible? I mean he’s never been that great on any level and yet some of you guys wanna blame anyone EXCEPT HIM.
 
Gonzo said:
Fine, continue pouring resources into the O-line. I'm okay with adding more depth and devoting a draft pick or two to building it. That won't change the ****ty playcalling, lack of discipline (penalties), and poor play by other positions, including QB.

If you only watch Dolphins games, I can see how it looks like our QB is getting slaughtered, particularly when you can only compare it to how ****ty our pass rush is on the other side. When you've only seen 8 sacks all year by our defense, the 2 or 3 sacks our line allows (sometimes not alone) per game seems like a crazy amount. It's not. It's middle of the road in the league. It doesn't help when the QB doesn't handle pressure well, as evidenced by the helmet bouncer against Cincy.
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Even if we change QBs, we're not going to do much better with this kind of line issues. And if that's how RT plays behind a decent line in games 1, 2 and 3, then that's sustainable success. I am content with that performance until a miracle occurs and we find an elite QB.

I agree he doesn't have great pocket presence as well. I'm not sure that will change at this point. But **** didn't hit the fan until the OL fell apart again.

I feel like that you're comparing RT to elite class when you say, 'if you're only watching dolphins games'. I could say the same though. Brady couldn't deal with the Lion's rush and people, me included, rushed to judgement on if this was finally it for the Brady era. But no one here thinks RT is elite, but his mistakes are amplified by some because he isn't playing elite level ball every goddamn snap.

Common denominator here is OL issues.

Playcalling and defense woes I agree with.
 
Martel13 said:
So far the OL HAS been mediocre. Tannehill has had an average amount of hits/time to throw this season by comparison to other teams. He’s just generally sucked like he has for most of his career. Not really a huge surprise to me. We've spent 1st rd picks and money on o-line every year. Maybe the qb sucks too?? Could that be possible? I mean he’s never been that great on any level and yet some of you guys wanna blame anyone EXCEPT HIM.
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First three games the line was mediocre.

Second two games it's heading toward bottom5th in the league, overall. Same trajectory as the other years: Miami ranked 30 or worse in OL.

And people blamed RT17 then too.

They should get a grip and open eyes on crucial unit play.

LD
p.s. what i mean by that trajectory is that if Miami OL plays like they did the last two games, they'll end up bottom5th in the league. And perhaps in that 28-32 range where they've been so often in the last decade.
 
If we could play patriots-like mistake-free football, consistently getting 3+ yards per play on 1st and second down, then that would help mitigate the OL problems by keeping us out of 3rd and forever. WIth no time to throw, 2nd/3rd and 15+ is virtually hopeless, dbs can just sit on the short routes

And as for OL, I think we just need scouts that can identify OL talent. We could spend 2-3 picks and upgrade it---so long as the scouting weren't horrible. OL is supposed to be one of the least bust-prone positions in the draft....https://bleacherreport.com/articles...e-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft. All we need is average scouting to produce an average line, and I think our above average skill positions would shine.

Alternative is to find a different type of scrambling/play-making qb a la deshaun watson that is also franchise-caliber. Just seems that the odds of this happening are still lower than fixing the OL---as long as we had a competent eval staff.
 
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PhxSunFan34 said:
Even if we change QBs, we're not going to do much better with this kind of line issues. And if that's how RT plays behind a decent line in games 1, 2 and 3, then that's sustainable success. I am content with that performance until a miracle occurs and we find an elite QB.

I agree he doesn't have great pocket presence as well. I'm not sure that will change at this point. But **** didn't hit the fan until the OL fell apart again.

I feel like that you're comparing RT to elite class when you say, 'if you're only watching dolphins games'. I could say the same though. Brady couldn't deal with the Lion's rush and people, me included, rushed to judgement on if this was finally it for the Brady era. But no one here thinks RT is elite, but his mistakes are amplified by some because he isn't playing elite level ball every goddamn snap.

Common denominator here is OL issues.

Playcalling and defense woes I agree with.
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As I noted, I'm not advocating for doing nothing about the O-line. But if the solution is the need to build an all-time great O-line for a QB to have success, then that QB isn't very good. And I'm not comparing him to elite QBs. "Middle of the road" is where the Phins sit when it comes to sacks and QB hits. They are 20th in QB hits allowed and 16th in sacks allowed. That's middle of the road.
 
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