Trade for Tristan Wirfs ? (Just an idea)

[PSU Cane]

Reading the Tea leaves, I don't have much faith Holland gets extended anytime soon. His comment yesterday about just being an "employee" implies to me, that they havnt even started talking about his extention.

I think it's difficult to discuss terms on any other deals until Tua's deal gets done. That will take so much cap space that other deals will have to be built around it.

 

[PSU Cane]

I proposed this last year, when it was actually doable and made a lot of sense for both teams. Now it’s trickier with AJ signed to an extension, although his signing bonus wasn’t very big.

It would’ve made a lot of sense for both teams and Miami would’ve gotten the premier RT and TB would’ve been able to get draft capital and save some money on a OT (who could play on either side) in return. I think a lot of people believe Jackson is better than he actually is. He's in that average category, we could do a lot better than him but we could also do a lot worse than him. His contract reflects that.

TB moved Wirfs to LT last year and I remember he was having a lot of anxiety about it. He even had to see the team psychologist to deal with that anxiety. Wirfs is definitely a better RT than LT. And that’s a problem for TB as they have to pay him like he’s just as good a LT as he is a RT.

Again, its probably a year too late to think about this but I would trade Jackson and a second for Wirfs in a heartbeat.

I agree. To me, it made more sense last year. To trade for him this year would mean you'd have to include Ajax in the deal or cut ties with Armstead because you can't pay all 3 and have one guy sit, nor would i expect any one of them be ok sitting.

In a perfect world, you'd put Wirfs back to his best position RT (and Tua's blindside) and Ajax at LT. But Armstead's restructured deal has a significant dead cap in 2024 and several additional void years. Plus, they just spent a draft pick on Paul. That's a lot of capital investment before taking into account what it would take to trade for Wirfs and pay him long-term.

 

[The Ghost]

I agree. To me, it made more sense last year. To trade for him this year would mean you'd have to include Ajax in the deal or cut ties with Armstead because you can't pay all 3 and have one guy sit, nor would i expect any one of them be ok sitting.

In a perfect world, you'd put Wirfs back to his best position RT (and Tua's blindside) and Ajax at LT. But Armstead's restructured deal has a significant dead cap in 2024 and several additional void years. Plus, they just spent a draft pick on Paul. That's a lot of capital investment before taking into account what it would take to trade for Wirfs and pay him long-term.

I'm ok with giving them Jackson in return. Armstead/Paul/Lamm is as good a situation as you could hope for on the left side.

Keeping Jackson would be overkill. Plus Tampa wouldn't even consider the deal if they weren't getting a starting OT back in the deal.

Its VERY unlikely we make this move but its SIGNIFICANTLY less likely this move would happen and that Jackson would stick around in Miami. However, the sheer importance of the position and what it would mean to this team for the foreseeable future has me remaining intrigued by the possibility of upgrading from someone who is average.

 

[Etuoo33]

Why, Wirfs is not that much better than Ajax, who is much less expensive? Trade even? NFW, reason $$$$. Trade for draft choices? No. We need inexpensive talent that teh draft brings us for a couple years, we need to hang on to our draft choices. If there's one thing that's obvious it's that our dalliances into trade's for talent, It's very very expensive both in draft capital and salary cap. So I ask the question again, Why? Is he so much better that we bring up yet another Brinks truck for a guy that's not scoring TD's or creating game changing plays. I wouldn't.

 

[The Ghost]

Why, Wirfs is not that much better than Ajax, who is much less expensive? Trade even? NFW, reason $$$$. Trade for draft choices? No. We need inexpensive talent that teh draft brings us for a couple years, we need to hang on to our draft choices. If there's one thing that's obvious it's that our dalliances into trade's for talent, It's very very expensive both in draft capital and salary cap. So I ask the question again, Why? Is he so much better that we bring up yet another Brinks truck for a guy that's not scoring TD's or creating game changing plays. I wouldn't.

To answer your question, its because Wirfs is in fact a lot better than Austin Jackson.

If we were talking about virtually any other position, it wouldn't even be something you could consider but blindside protector is exceptionally more important when you have a QB with an injury history like we do.

Personally I would love to see Tua get more time in the pocket.

 

[Etuoo33]

To answer your question, its because Wirfs is in fact a lot better than Austin Jackson.

If we were talking about virtually any other position, it wouldn't even be something you could consider but blindside protector is exceptionally more important when you have a QB with an injury history like we do.

Personally I would love to see Tua get more time in the pocket.

From yet another guy that wants to break the bank? We already have enough cap trouble now without adding to it. At some point you have to say enough (right New Orleans Saints?) and go with some fiscal sanity. AJ is still young and improving his craft but is now affordable for a couple more years. I disagree that Wirfs is good enough 'value' to justify the salary difference.

 

[Avigatorx]

To answer your question, its because Wirfs is in fact a lot better than Austin Jackson.

If we were talking about virtually any other position, it wouldn't even be something you could consider but blindside protector is exceptionally more important when you have a QB with an injury history like we do.

Personally I would love to see Tua get more time in the pocket.

This.

For other teams it is just a RT, for our team it is a cornerstone position.

 

[gofins60]

I agree. To me, it made more sense last year. To trade for him this year would mean you'd have to include Ajax in the deal or cut ties with Armstead because you can't pay all 3 and have one guy sit, nor would i expect any one of them be ok sitting.

In a perfect world, you'd put Wirfs back to his best position RT (and Tua's blindside) and Ajax at LT. But Armstead's restructured deal has a significant dead cap in 2024 and several additional void years. Plus, they just spent a draft pick on Paul. That's a lot of capital investment before taking into account what it would take to trade for Wirfs and pay him long-term.

In a perfect world... Grier would be able to build a good o-line through the draft and supplement those draft picks with decent, low-priced Free Agents.

In the current world, Grier keeps spending money and draft picks on o-linemen drafted by other teams, because it seems that nearly every other GM is better at drafting o-linemen than Grier.

 

[The Ghost]

From yet another guy that wants to break the bank? We already have enough cap trouble now without adding to it. At some point you have to say enough (right New Orleans Saints?) and go with some fiscal sanity. AJ is still young and improving his craft but is now affordable for a couple more years. I disagree that Wirfs is good enough 'value' to justify the salary difference.

This isn't a DT, LB or OG were talking about. You're talking about a two time All-pro RT (1st and 2nd team) and probably should've been a three time All-pro given how great his rookie season was. You're comparing that to a guy who's best season (last year) saw him as a middle of the pack RT in his only healthy season.

I am not going to rejoice in his "low" salary without properly understanding why it is that he has that lower than average salary.

Austin Jackson is decent and he might get better but its more likely he'll just be an average RT for the course of his career. AJ will NEVER be an All-pro caliber player.

Giving Tua more time to throw while simultaneously upgrading the quality of the protection is something that has to be considered. In addition to the more physical presence in the running game Wirfs would bring.

In a redraft of 2020, Wirfs is going 13th again (or earlier) and Austin Jackson isn't likely going in the top 75 selections.

 

[Avigatorx]

In a perfect world... Grier would be able to build a good o-line through the draft and supplement those draft picks with decent, low-priced Free Agents.

In the current world, Grier keeps spending money and draft picks on o-linemen drafted by other teams, because it seems that nearly every other GM is better at drafting o-linemen than Grier.

Also this.

If Grier is going to burn draft picks on the oline, I'd prefer he us get a guy with a proven track record.

 

[The Ghost]

In a perfect world... Grier would be able to build a good o-line through the draft and supplement those draft picks with decent, low-priced Free Agents.

In the current world, Grier keeps spending money and draft picks on o-linemen drafted by other teams, because it seems that nearly every other GM is better at drafting o-linemen than Grier.

In a perfect world we have one of the premier RT's in the game protecting Tua for virtually his entire career and not a middle of the pack RT that we can take solace in the fact that we paid him less money.

Austin Jackson isn't a weakness but he also isn't a strength.

A late second round pick in 2025 isn't a reason not make this trade because we're going to need OG and Safety help next year. Now when it comes to the salary aspect of it, if he wants north of $28M, I understand the hesitancy. However, if there is one position you're going to go above and beyond at (other than QB) its the blind side protector of said QB (especially when said QB is injury prone).

Chubb, Ramsey and Hill will be gone in the blink of an eye, we really don't have that many big money, long term cap commitments to worry about.

 

[The Ghost]

And we haven't even touched on the improvement in the running game that would come with the league's best run blocking RT.

Again, not saying I think it will happen, I don't but its hard not to envision Austin Jackson being a LT somewhere else and us having one of the games premier RT's.

How many offensive (non-QB) players in the entire league would improve our offense more than Wirfs addition would? I'd like to see that list.

 

[gofins60]

In a perfect world we have one of the premier RT's in the game protecting Tua for virtually his entire career and not a middle of the pack RT that we can take solace in the fact that we paid him less money.

Austin Jackson isn't a weakness but he also isn't a strength.

A late second round pick in 2025 isn't a reason not make this trade because we're going to need OG and Safety help next year. Now when it comes to the salary aspect of it, if he wants north of $28M, I understand the hesitancy. However, if there is one position you're going to go above and beyond at (other than QB) its the blind side protector of said QB (especially when said QB is injury prone).

Chubb, Ramsey and Hill will be gone in the blink of an eye, we really don't have that many big money, long term cap commitments to worry about.

Good point. However, logic is NOT part of the o-line building process in Miami. If Tua is left-handed, why did Grier go after a big-name FA (Armstead) for LT instead of getting someone better than Jackson at RT? And, I read that their new FA Center isn't a great blocker, so why did they sign him? Why not draft a better Center? IMO, being able to get to the second level is not more important than being able to block (run and pass) effectively.

It's very possible that Miami will be okay at OT this year, but Tua is going to be under constant pressure because of the middle of the line. If money is an issue, combined with Grier's inability to build a line through the draft, then maybe Miami should stop paying a huge portion of the salary cap to just a few players, and instead spend that money on buying a good o-line.

 

[The Ghost]

Good point. However, logic is NOT part of the o-line building process in Miami. If Tua is left-handed, why did Grier go after a big-name FA (Armstead) for LT instead of getting someone better than Jackson at RT? And, I read that their new FA Center isn't a great blocker, so why did they sign him? Why not draft a better Center? IMO, being able to get to the second level is not more important than being able to block (run and pass) effectively.

It's very possible that Miami will be okay at OT this year, but Tua is going to be under constant pressure because of the middle of the line. If money is an issue, combined with Grier's inability to build a line through the draft, then maybe Miami should stop paying a huge portion of the salary cap to just a few players, and instead spend that money on buying a good o-line.

I am with you on the importance of the center position. I've wanted it addressed countless times the last few years, even before we added Connor Williams. I believe, they believe, they can turn Brewer into another Williams because of their system requirements with getting to the next level.

The thing about center is, its always going to be a very hard position to upgrade because there are so few options every year.

As it pertains to this past draft, you just couldn't pull the trigger on a center in the first round, given our glaring need for pass rush help. And in the second round, you already missed out on the top 2 prospects so that combined with the need for Armstead insurance, it just wasn't in the cards for 2024.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now on Brewer but its a concern for sure. Conversely, all the more reason to upgrade one of the other four spots.

Just being ok at OT isn't ideal. Having someone you can confidently run behind on 3rd and 1 is something I'd prefer.

 

[JBinSD]

Did anyone notice he is probably going to get $30 million a year?

And we have AJAX for $12 million -- an ascending player?

We cannot afford Wirfs.

Period.