realdolphin
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that´s a good objective comment. TUA is backup talent right now at best
**Tua discussion super thread**
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It’s actually what you claimed about Herbert already. That was the joke of your post. Again tell me, what good solid defense did Herbert beat again?
Orange Fin Bad
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Thanks for the honest answer and attempting the discussion.
I agree on Lawrence. He is an obvious NFL caliber QB. If we could get him without giving up all 4 of our round 1 and 2 picks, I would make the move. Especially if we can get a 2nd or better back for Tua. I would want at least 2 other picks in the first 2 rounds to get a WR and RB. We can add OL in later rounds. We probably need to draft multiple WRs. But, if we had Lawrence we are in good shape for years to come.
The thing that makes me hesitate about Wilson is nothing more than the fact he is from BYU and so was John Beck. I just can't. I think I would be ok with drafting him, but no way at 3. I want Davonte Smith. That guy will be one of the top WRs in the league for quite a few years. He is absolutely a game changer.
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How? Let’s recap what Tua was working with. Actually you tell me. Grade our OL. Grade our Receivers. Grade our RB’s. Then tell me what Tua should have done. Don’t forget to add in Gailey’s play calling. I’m interested to hear what you give Tua’s support staff.
Pachyderm_Wave
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Derrick Henry TD. Good job Tannehill!
Tua is not the messiah like many wanted him to be.
He has shown little to no progress, in fact those who blamed Gailey for poor play calling he was protecting Tua and as we all seen today when he turned him lose he got exposed.
He has shown little to no progress, in fact those who blamed Gailey for poor play calling he was protecting Tua and as we all seen today when he turned him lose he got exposed.
FukTheJets
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His games against the cards and Chiefs were more impressive than anything Herbert has done with much better help and big losses
aside from this recent comedic dribble based on your past posts can I ask you if you would draft another QB at #3 in the draft? If you are not too drunk to answer the question (I'm almost there after today)? This is a crazy unique position we are in. We won 10 games and probably not in the playoffs but we "might" have the 3rd overall pick? Are you hitching your wagon to Tua and building around him or are you hedging? YOU - Tide Bama guy. I respect your opinion on this what do you think?
Deepwaters22
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One word. Herbert
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I realize this is sarcasm @dolphinfan41 , so my "Disagree" points are essentially agreeing with your sarcasm, but it's easier to pair up with these lines so I"m doing it this way. The consensus opinion of Tua is not so great after this loss, but just wanted to address these points and add a few more for consideration (both good and bad).
1. Disagree - This is possibly the best OL we've had since before Tannehill, with a couple of possible exceptions. The OL is not an excuse.
2. Disagree - Our WR corps is one of this team's strength, and really we should be including the TE group in this because we have one of the very best TE groups in the league.
3. Disagree - Just as I always said in the Marino vs. Montana debate ... wins are about more than just the QB, as item #1 implicitly assumes. Tua has managed games--most of which the defense won--with the Arizona and Kansas City games being his only real stretch past game managing. Sorry Tua fans, but these are what we call flashes, and typical of rookie QB's, which only shows they have potential, not that they've arrived.
4. Disagree - I'm not a Gailey fan, but I must admit he has done a fantastic job of setting the table for what each QB does well (Fitz and Tua). Tua is good at short passes, and he's helped him manage games masterfully by calling few deep passes and very few intermediate throws. Gailey also understands that Tua's hip is still not 100% so his velocity is not where it needs to be to consistently challenge the intermediate routes. On those deep routes, you can just chuck it and if you overthrow it, you're fine--no INT. But those intermediate routes you have guys under and over, and often guys breaking laterally with the QB's eyes, so velocity is needed to rifle it in there before that armada circling shark DB's closes in on that reception point. So, Gailey has kept Tua's game clean, leading to incredibly low INT's. But, even the syrupy-sweet analysis of Kurt Warner points out that Tua is a Checkdown-Charlie this year, much in the same way Chad Pennington and Alex Smith have been in the past. Sure, it can win ... but it's all about reducing risk and limiting INT's ... so really, it wins when your defense can carry the load. Gailey knows this, and has protected Tua to great effect. Similarly, Tua--like a doctor--aspires to "first do no harm." That's great until the team falls too far behind.
5. Disagree - He was accurate, yes, but it's simply not the same when your top 5 WR's are 1st round draft picks, and half of your OL are NFL players. Almost no team you face has a comparable level of talent. Those WR's are open by MILES because they're DOMINANT. In fact, part of Tua's problem has been he is having trouble making that transition because much of the time "NFL open" is a 2 foot window requiring a precise pinpoint pass to make those intermediate throws. Tua simply didn't ever have to throw many of those throws at Alabama, because he was throwing to guys like Henry Ruggs III, Devonta' Smith and Jaylen Waddle ... and no, that's not a complete list. Those guys created 5 yards of separation ... and it's pretty easy to throw confidently into that kind of open window. Yes, Tua achieved a record of which he should be proud, and yes he is accurate ... but anyone expecting him to instantly become Drew Brees is missing the point. Heck, Drew Brees was replaced early on in his career ... because this transition is not easy, and it does take time.
6. Disagree - Arm strength matters. I'm a big fan of saying it's one of the most overrated things ... but I've never said it doesn't matter. Precisely those throws that Tua is NOT attempting (intermediate range and middle throws) are the ones that require arm strength. So far, Tua has done a good job of throwing the short out, but part of that is because his WR's have done a great job of selling those routes and driving the CB's off of the short out. The Josh Norman INT at Buffalo was because a WR fell down ... which is absolutely going to happen when you throw those routes a lot. Those INT's are the highest chances of becoming the Pick-6, as this one did. You can say it's not Tua's fault, and you'd be right, but at the end of the day, if you throw so many of those routes, you need to expect a higher number of Pick-6's even if your overall INT numbers are low.
7. Agree - Look, we fans love to polarize. Everyone is either great or trash. The truth of the matter is almost always somewhere in-between. Tua has had a very good rookie season, and it's only because of the instant success of guys like Jalen Hurts and the instant-awesome of Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow that Tua's rookie season is considered anything short of a miracle. Rehabbing a long-term injury is tough. This one robs one of the natural lower body torque needed to generate velocity--and reducing Tua's already pedestrian velocity is a real problem. Then there's the rust and confidence factors. Couple this with the joke of a preseason from Covid, and we can all see why many people were expecting Tua to have a redshirt year on the bench. I proposed he have a Pat Mahomes style rookie year where he was protected, sat, and learned, then came on later in the season to get the first TD, INT, start, win, and loss out of his system so he could have a proper offseason and be ready to rock in 2021. But let's keep perspective people ... Tua HAS flashed very impressive things. Tua HAS gone toe to toe with exceptional QB's in Mahomes and Murray and held his own. Tua HAS avoided the biggest rookie trap--throwing INT's. Tua HAS displayed unwavering confidence. Tua HAS shown the willingness to scramble and take hits. Tua HAS displayed fearlessness in the pocket. Tua HAS displayed a team-first attitude. For a rookie, Tua has displayed a LOT of good qualities. He was never a high-end potential guy across any of the physical metrics, so comparing him to Justin Herbert isn't fair. The entire question with Herbert was whether his intangibles could catch up to his all-world physical tools ... and he answered that question with a resounding yes. Tua's question was whether he was going to get healthy, and he also has answered that with a resounding yes. We should be grateful.
8. New - Tua did what the team needed for him to WIN, not what would make his stats the most impressive.
Agree - When your defense is playing lights out and winning the game for you, don't be an egomaniac and throw the ball all around the yard. Just be smart and manage the game and go home with the win. I cannot look negatively on a QB who does this. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a game manager, rather, it means he knows how to win--something Tua has a track record of doing at every level.
9. New - Tua has mobility.
Agree - While he's not a Kyler Murray guy as a runner, he knows where the 1st down marker is and when needed he's not afraid to go for it. When the pocket breaks down (often because he's a rookie he has missed seeing things he will see later in his career), he understands that sometimes the best thing you can do at that point is get some of the yardage back, and he runs for it. But, he clearly needs to work on using his mobility to scramble instead of running. WR's uncover deep when a QB learns to run like Russell Wilson (who looks like the second coming of Fran Tarkenton). Passing records can be set when you learn to extend the play rather than pat yourself on the back for a meaningless 7 yard run. This is a skill Tua needs to learn.
10. New - The bar we almost all agreed upon before the season was his health, and he exceeded that bar.
Agree - For all the hyper-critical lens we've focused on our rookie, remember that our bar before the season was always his health. He proved he healed enough to play, and he proved his willingness to take risks when needed, and he proved an acceptable level of durability. If we're honest, if we had known pre-season how his rookie year has gone, it would be hard for anyone to not call this a success. It's only by comparison to Justin Herbert (drafted after him and rumored/mocked to Miami) that this whole wave of Tua-Doubt has washed over us. Tua looks to be the guy we can build around. If Coach Flo gets this defense consistently playing like this season, Tua looks like an exceptionally good fit for Coach Flo's team, and we might become the new 200's Baltimore Colts--defense first, dominating teams and racking up the wins.
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False...
Alabama, and from time to time LSU is as close to the NFL as you can get. The rest of the league is regular degular.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I bet it’s safe to say none of your friends are NFL executives
I said you don't give up on a rookie in their 1st year starting. Haskins is not a rookie.