****Tua Tagovailoa super thread****

[Dolphinator530]

This is folly.

You can draft a stud at Defensive Tackle, Corner, Offensive Line, RB... and have a plan at QB

For example taking Jalen Hurts and Anthony Gordon later in the draft. So the principle to have a plan for filling the QB position is still satisfied. So that stud center or left tackle are out there protecting someone other than just any stiff.

Miami has so many needs and holes that if they give up three first round picks to get Tua he would be playing on the worst team in the league and he would have no protection. Remember that Miami had the worst rated O line in the league last year and the worst running game in the league last year. We could have Tua out there running for his life with no protection and no running game. I wonder what the odds of amazing success are then?

First you must include FA as part of the equation, protection will be added through all phases of the off season including FA, Draft and June cuts. Secondly the idea of a plain Qb is folly, the last plain Qb to win a SB was who Brad Johnson in 2003. Exceptional QB play is the league now. Having pro bowlers all over the place and no elite QB play means you are the vikings and cowboys. If you are fine with falling short or having a bunch of 1 and done in the playoffs as your ceiling be my guest. I'd prefer to lose 5, 18 and 56 to move up to 2 and take a shot at greatness.

A draft of...
#5 Simmons
#18 Jones
#26 Cj Henderson
#39 Ashtyn Davis
#56 hennessy

While great that will ensure a few more wins but no long term success is guaranteed even if most of them hit. In fact even if they became studs none of those players are worth a point on the spread of a game. If they flop its a worthless draft and you end up with no impactful players which is the case with any draft that most of them flop. If they become good sorta role players but not great this draft would be a near failure IMO.

However a draft of...
#2 Tua
#26 Jones
#39 Davis/Winfield

Does move the team in a direction towards great success because you are taking a shot with the most important position, if Tua hits the others can be flops and it wont matter. If Tua flops and the others do as well. Then you are in a similar position that the previous example. But if Tua and either of the others hit the combined impact is what 8-10 points a game all of which is Tua. If Tua ends up a sort of good role player QB then you still win games probably more than the "stacked" roster you talk about.

The best defensive players arent worth a point in a spread, the best TE and WRs are worth maybe a half a point. If Mahomes had missed the Superbowl the line would have shifted 10-13 points. The roster will be developed through all possible player acquisition phases including FA, Draft and Cuts. Thinking the draft is the only place to get guys is a bit narrow thinking IMO. And the staff has shown an uncanny ability to find players and develop them in just one year. They dont need a huge pool of potential players they need to grab players very deliberately to fill places they want and trust the staff to develop others to complete the roster building process.

Lastly, Tua is not a day one starter. While he will likely be healthy enough to do so, he still needs reps and time to get the playbook under his belt. Look for him to start really pushing for time around week 11/12 for whomever he is drafted by. And if you remember our line weeks 1 and 2 and compare it to week 11 you can see the improvement the staff can make developing players throughout a season. Add a few guys into that mix with some talent (through Fa and draft and cuts) and your protection will be way better than you are assuming at this time.

 

[Etrius24]

A draft of


A draft of...
#5 Simmons
#18 Jones
#26 Cj Henderson
#39 Ashtyn Davis
#56 hennessy

And then take Hurts and Gordon later in the Draft. If Gordon pans out to be a better version of Minshew... You know a QB that throws 4 touchdowns for every pick completes 65% of his passes and has a QB rating of 100... On a solid team that QB wins playoff games for us.

Of course we are going to add free agents... I would love to see them bring in help for the offensive line and to sign Eckler to bolster the offense.

I love Simmons... Watched all of his Clemson games... If we pick 5th I think Okudah needs to be the selection... if he is not there take Brown.... But Simmons is legit...

 

[39wildman]

One thing that most fan dont understand.. Mohome went to playoff team that could not win afc title game and divisional game.. so did Watson.. Tua, Murry, Mayfield and Burrow are going to bottom of barrel team.. it going take time.. if they get out of basement of nfl...if I was love and herbert.. I would hope I get draft later in first rd ..

 

[Dolphinator530]

A draft of


A draft of...
#5 Simmons
#18 Jones
#26 Cj Henderson
#39 Ashtyn Davis
#56 hennessy

And then take Hurts and Gordon later in the Draft. If Gordon pans out to be a better version of Minshew... You know a QB that throws 4 touchdowns for every pick completes 65% of his passes and has a QB rating of 100... On a solid team that QB wins playoff games for us.

Of course we are going to add free agents... I would love to see them bring in help for the offensive line and to sign Eckler to bolster the offense.

I love Simmons... Watched all of his Clemson games... If we pick 5th I think Okudah needs to be the selection... if he is not there take Brown.... But Simmons is legit...

A lot of faith to put into a limited athlete and QB drafted in the 6th round. But to each their own. Lets see how Minshew does this year now that there is a book on him, there is a reason he fell that far. Lets see if he breaks the mold or comes back down to his abilities.

 

[FSU Truth]

Are you even serious??

Minshew had a QB rating over 91 as a rookie... Throwing more than 3 touchdowns for every pick. Minshew was on pace over a whole season to throw for 4000 yards.

And you think that is a pile of Sh*t?

I get it you like Tua... I do not blame you... Please do not make up lies or ignore easy to see truths to try to make your point.

Minshew throwing for 30 touchdowns next year with more than 4000 yards and a QB rating close to triple digits... Drafted in the 6th round.

Gordon is the QB that replaced Minshew out in Washington. Gordon took that same offense to a higher level and broke records.

People discredited Minshew a year ago ... saying that he was part of a gimmick air raid offense... small school... etc.

Look how wrong they all were. Nobody on this board would not go back a year and pass on Minshew in the 6th round .... an absolute steal.

Gordon is even better. Bigger arm, Better football IQ...

No Minshew is not Tua.... But he is nowhere close to a pile of Sh*t

Stop lying to try to make a point.

Over the last decade in a half only one QB has had sustained NFL success coming from the Air Raid offense and that is Mahomes. There is a reason the Jags are still in the Market for a QB in this draft and the next. No one is that franchise wants to state their careers on Minshew going forward. HE is a filler, an OK for now kind of QB, but one that they will consistently be in the market to upgrade.

Gordon broke records...cool, a ton of QBs who have played in that offense have put up huge numbers, it is a paint by numbers, presnap, no read offense. Make the call and throw to a spot. That isn't football IQ that is just base design.

Yep, lets hope that we can make magic out of mediocrity...

This idea of settling on an average QB because you want some defensive player is the level of stupidity that has led Miami to be 20 years in this level of mess. Team rarely get a shot at a top tier QB, and still folks want to pass...seems foolish...position player over QB...I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

This has nothing to do with Tua love...Some understand satire, other do not. This is about being a position to draft a QB..Burrow, Herbert, Tua...you don't waste those opportunities for "good enough".

 

[Etrius24]

A lot of faith to put into a limited athlete and QB drafted in the 6th round. But to each their own. Lets see how Minshew does this year now that there is a book on him, there is a reason he fell that far. Lets see if he breaks the mold or comes back down to his abilities.

There are exact reasons why Minshew fell.

he is only 6 foot 1 and a half
He only became the starter as a senior and produced at an elite level for one year in college
He played in an air raid offense and people said it was the gimmick scheme that made him look good instead of his talent.

I posted an article on this already that talked to Minshew's college coaches.

Minshew is the same size as Tua... Funny how teams passed on Minshew because he was too small but will fall all over themselves for Tua. I understand Tua has had a great college career and he has looked special.... I get that. But for some reason Tua is not too small at all.

 

[FSU Truth]

There are exact reasons why Minshew fell.

he is only 6 foot 1 and a half
He only became the starter as a senior and produced at an elite level for one year in college
He played in an air raid offense and people said it was the gimmick scheme that made him look good instead of his talent.

I posted an article on this already that talked to Minshew's college coaches.

Minshew is the same size as Tua... Funny how teams passed on Minshew because he was too small but will fall all over themselves for Tua. I understand Tua has had a great college career and he has looked special.... I get that. But for some reason Tua is not too small at all.

No one passed on Minshew because of size...Murray was 5'10" and taken number 1 overall...no team cares about height when it comes to QBs anymore. That was true for Wilson but that was 7 years ago, teams have since moved on from the height issue.

 

[Geordie]

Over the last decade in a half only one QB has had sustained NFL success coming from the Air Raid offense and that is Mahomes. There is a reason the Jags are still in the Market for a QB in this draft and the next. No one is that franchise wants to state their careers on Minshew going forward. HE is a filler, an OK for now kind of QB, but one that they will consistently be in the market to upgrade.

Gordon broke records...cool, a ton of QBs who have played in that offense have put up huge numbers, it is a paint by numbers, presnap, no read offense. Make the call and throw to a spot. That isn't football IQ that is just base design.

Yep, lets hope that we can make magic out of mediocrity...

This idea of settling on an average QB because you want some defensive player is the level of stupidity that has led Miami to be 20 years in this level of mess. Team rarely get a shot at a top tier QB, and still folks want to pass...seems foolish...position player over QB...I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

This has nothing to do with Tua love...Some understand satire, other do not. This is about being a position to draft a QB..Burrow, Herbert, Tua...you don't waste those opportunities for "good enough".

Totally agree with the bolded here. It's like groundhog day sometimes around here, where we still have folks wanting us to continue to make the same mistakes.

I do think you are being a little harsh on Minshew, the guy does have football IQ, before he went to play his senior year at Washington State he was ready to take a job working as an assistant under Saban at Bama. If the Jags are smart, they build the offense around him this off season. They can win with him and I really don't think they can do anything with their QB room this off season, maybe next they can dump Foles. You are right though in your generally ethos on the air raid QB, Case Keenum was another one, I think at Houston right ?

 

[Etrius24]

If you are using Herbert as part of the argument to take a top QB.... Please jump off a tall building.

Ugh

 

[Etrius24]

Totally agree with the bolded here. It's like groundhog day sometimes around here, where we still have folks wanting us to continue to make the same mistakes.

I do think you are being a little harsh on Minshew, the guy does have football IQ, before he went to play his senior year at Washington State he was ready to take a job working as an assistant under Saban at Bama. If the Jags are smart, they build the offense around him this off season. They can win with him and I really don't think they can do anything with their QB room this off season, maybe next they can dump Foles. You are right though in your generally ethos on the air raid QB, Case Keenum was another one, I think at Houston right ?

Geordie

Thing is as much as Minshew went unnoticed and undrafted... Everything that he did in the air raid offense, Gordon took it to another level. Just a better arm and better passer.

Gordon is 6 foot 3 but skinny... and he is only an average runner... So he gets lost in the shuffle of all the athletic QB's that can razzle dazzle running the ball. Gordon has a world class arm and mechanically is the best QB in the draft when it comes to footwork and arm angles.

Sure he will need time to adjust... and the coaches will have to build an offense around him... But as a pure passer his talent is undeniable.

 

[Etrius24]

SO if you like Minshew.... you will love Gordon.

That is not taking some mediocre QB and hoping for a miracle.

 

[Dolphinator530]

Geordie

Thing is as much as Minshew went unnoticed and undrafted... Everything that he did in the air raid offense, Gordon took it to another level. Just a better arm and better passer.

Gordon is 6 foot 3 but skinny... and he is only an average runner... So he gets lost in the shuffle of all the athletic QB's that can razzle dazzle running the ball. Gordon has a world class arm and mechanically is the best QB in the draft when it comes to footwork and arm angles.

Sure he will need time to adjust... and the coaches will have to build an offense around him... But as a pure passer his talent is undeniable.

Have any references or metrics to prove this? Watch him during the senior bowl and he was putting tons of effort into 8 yard slants; doesnt come across as world class if you are using your whole body to make short throws. If i put this list of QBs up...

Burrow
Tua
Herbert
Love
Eason
Fromm
Gordon
Hurts

I would say that Gordon and Hurts are bottom feeding in the arm strength category.

 

[1972forever]

Geordie

Thing is as much as Minshew went unnoticed and undrafted... Everything that he did in the air raid offense, Gordon took it to another level. Just a better arm and better passer.

Gordon is 6 foot 3 but skinny... and he is only an average runner... So he gets lost in the shuffle of all the athletic QB's that can razzle dazzle running the ball. Gordon has a world class arm and mechanically is the best QB in the draft when it comes to footwork and arm angles.

Sure he will need time to adjust... and the coaches will have to build an offense around him... But as a pure passer his talent is undeniable.

I wish Gordon nothing but the best in his NFL career. Yet the only way I would want to see him in a Dolphin uniform is if he signs as an undrafted free agent. We already have Fitzpatrick, Rosen, and Rudock on the roster and they all are much better than Gordon.

Gordon would be okay as a 4th QB who can be an extra arm during camp but that’s about it.

 

[Etrius24]

Have any references or metrics to prove this? Watch him during the senior bowl and he was putting tons of effort into 8 yard slants; doesnt come across as world class if you are using your whole body to make short throws. If i put this list of QBs up...

Burrow
Tua
Herbert
Love
Eason
Fromm
Gordon
Hurts

I would say that Gordon and Hurts are bottom feeding in the arm strength category.

I posted an article on Gordon in one of these threads today I believe... I will go repost it for you.


His college coach stated he has the strongest arm he has ever coached... Better arm than Minshew... Nobody who saw Minshew play as a rookie was saying he did not have the arm to play QB in the NFL

 

[Dolphinator530]

You said world class not viable for the NFL. This isnt semantics, world class puts him with the likes of Mahomes, Allen and Rodgers who can flick it on a line with no effort for like 45 yards. And his mechanics are not best in class he is violent and has a lower arm angle which isnt ideal for throwing lanes in the NFL. On top of his lower half being a complete mixed bag.

No scouting report I have read says he has a world class arm, and my personal observation it looks like average at best for the NFL. He does have a quick release but his throwing motion is violent I wonder how a more vertical passing game will work for him versus the style of an air raid that does a lot of screens and shorter routes. Wonder if his completion percentages were more a product of his system then his overall ability.