Tua vs. Herbert/Burrow | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua vs. Herbert/Burrow

bdizzle00 said:
Do you want to talk about fading? In the last 4 games of the season, Herbert threw for 8 TDs vs. 1 INT, 278 YPG, and had a rating of 112.
Tua threw for 4 TDs vs. 5 INTs, 229 YPG, and a rating of 79.5

Herbert played light years better than Tua last year. Hopefully Tua catches up.

It's amazing that so many blind Tua lovers cannot bring themselves to say that Herbert or Watson or Rodgers or whoever is better that Tua right now. It's excuse after excuse after excuse.
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To stay on the subject of Herbert's chronic 4th quarter disappearing act, none of of those happened in the 4th quarter and only 2 were after halftime.
Not to mention there was absolutely no pressure as they were 2-9 to start the last 4 games
 
dan the fin said:
Yes he would start him at 60% strength in a muscle/muscle group. Read my post and think about it. Not saying Tua was at an overall 60% capacity. Not saying he 60% healed. Just look at how often guys have played with a cast on broken arm/hand. Do you think that hand or arm was over a 50% capacity?

As for why he played better in game 2/3 well because players have good games and bad games. Michael Jordan scored 60 points in a game with the flu, do you think he would be better off playing all year with the flu?

Again he was 100% healthy, but he was not back to 100% (pre injury) when it comes to a strength/conditioning stand point. Now let me explain to you about how strength/conditioning works at the NFL level because it seems that you believe that the more time after the injury that a player would continue to get stronger and in better physical condition. There is a reason they have off-season strength/conditioning programs. This is where player rebuild/gain muscle. Once the season starts you are at your peak strength/conditioning level for that year (tons of players lose strength/muscle mass during the season). You body just can't handle the lifting programs to build muscle in season, the lifting program in season is just to maintain. So basically whatever level Tua was at to begin the season was his peak and probably decreased as the season went on. A great example of players losing strength/endurance is what they refer to is the rookie wall. Most college kids don't build as much strength in the off-season like in the NFL then tail off faster.

It seems like you are trying very hard to find a reason to say the hip injury was not a factor.
Basically anybody with common sense and understanding of the human body knew that the hip injury would be a factor this season.
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People claim they grasp this concept yet just can’t seem to come to grips with it
 
bdizzle00 said:
More excuses. Tua will be seen as better when he produces better and is more consistent. It's as simple as that. He has a great group of weapons this year so there should be no reason he won't play much better, but if someone gets hurt, it's what every other QB in the NFL has to deal with.
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Herbert was 2-9 with both wins coming against... *checks notes* Jacksonville and the Jets... before the garbage time of the regular season after they there was no pressure to make the playoffs anymore.

That's your comparative hero.

/shrug
 
rent this space said:
To stay on the subject of Herbert's chronic 4th quarter disappearing act, none of of those happened in the 4th quarter and only 2 were after halftime.
Not to mention there was absolutely no pressure as they were 2-9 to start the last 4 games
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Gotcha, so I guess Tua's 11 TDs count for more points then Herbert's 31 TDs because they came in different quarters.

Again, just more excuses and no accountability at all on Tua and his play. What is so bad about being critical of Tua when he is deserving of criticism??
 
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Kamelion4291 said:
Herbert was 2-9 with both wins coming against... *checks notes* Jacksonville and the Jets... before the garbage time of the regular season after they there was no pressure to make the playoffs anymore.

That's your comparative hero.

/shrug
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So conversely, Tua played worse because there was pressure to make the playoffs? Great quality to have in a franchise QB.

Herbert was better than Tua the entire year. Herbert also won ROY so apparently the experts felt the same way. That shouldn't hurt your feelings. I'm confident Tua will get better.
 
bdizzle00 said:
Herbert was better than Tua the entire year. Herbert also won ROY so apparently the experts felt the same way. That shouldn't hurt your feelings. I'm confident Tua will get better.
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Weird. I watched him get blown out 45-0 by the Patriots and against us his OC looked like he was going to have a heart attack if he had to call a single play where Herbert had to throw beyond the line of scrimmage.

He was better the entire year for sure.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Weird. I watched him get blown out 45-0 by the Patriots and against us his OC looked like he was going to have a heart attack if he had to call a single play where Herbert had to throw beyond the line of scrimmage.

He was better the entire year for sure.
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You're right. Tua was better than Herbert last year. Everyone on the planet except for 10 or so Dolphins' fans on this site is wrong about what they saw last year.
 
bdizzle00 said:
You're right. Tua was better than Herbert last year. Everyone on the planet except for 10 or so Dolphins' fans on this site is wrong about what they saw last year.
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Man, you can't get through a single post without going off the rails one way or the other.

Strawman, hyperbole, whatever you can do to not have a serious discussion where maybe everything isn't black and white, good or bad in 100% of cases.

Do better.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Man, you can't get through a single post without going off the rails one way or the other.

Strawman, hyperbole, whatever you can do to not have a serious discussion where maybe everything isn't black and white, good or bad in 100% of cases.

Do better.
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Keep telling yourself that instead of recognizing the facts. Sure Herbert had a few bad games. So did Tua. When Tua does it, its understandable, but when Herbert does it, it's grounds that he's not as good as Tua. There really doesn't need to be a serious discussion over who was better last year. Herbert was, by far, objectively better. To bring up team record or 4th quarter stats or whatever is grasping for straws when it comes to who was the better QB last year between the 2 of them.

Again, I don't understand why it's so hard for some to be critical of Tua when criticism is warranted, it's not that big of a deal. I'm confident he will play better this year.
 
bdizzle00 said:
Keep telling yourself that instead of recognizing the facts. Sure Herbert had a few bad games. So did Tua. When Tua does it, its understandable, but when Herbert does it, it's grounds that he's not as good as Tua. There really doesn't need to be a serious discussion over who was better last year. Herbert was, by far, objectively better. To bring up team record or 4th quarter stats or whatever is grasping for straws when it comes to who was the better QB last year between the 2 of them.

Again, I don't understand why it's so hard for some to be critical of Tua when criticism is warranted, it's not that big of a deal. I'm confident he will play better this year.
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This is where you're wrong, dudeski.

If you want a base statistical measure to be the hill you want to die on (or RoY), go right ahead. When one QB gets 766 YAC and the other gets 2,215... one may want to look deeper at the actual numbers, but you won't because it isn't good for your narrative so go off.

You got us good with ESPN player profile numbers.

Herbert is now better than Dak Prescott. Quick, someone tell Jerry Jones!
 
I'm supporting Tua but anyone who thinks Herbert didn't have a better season and show more needs to rethink it. Yes, tons of variables at play.

Tua really needs to take a big step forward this season or the noise will get justifiably louder. For the record, I think he will.
 
Dynastybuilder said:
I'm supporting Tua but anyone who thinks Herbert didn't have a better season and show more needs to rethink it. Yes, tons of variables at play.

Tua really needs to take a big step forward this season or the noise will get justifiably louder. For the record, I think he will.
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I don't see anybody saying that Herbert wasn't better than Tua. I agree that Herbert was better.

I take issue with the point that he was objectively "much" better. Those people didn't watch him in college and see the same issues affect him in year one in the NFL which is why the record was an abomination until the pressure was off at the end of the season to win or the fact that he got far more help from his receiving core than Tua did to pile up those nice, worthless stats.
 
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