Tua vs. Herbert/Burrow

[Rev Kev]

Maybe. We could play the "what if" game with literally any player in the history of the NFL.

Yah I think you played the game when you just wrote what if Herbert played for the Phins??? LOL can’t make this stuff up it is so funny

 

[bdizzle00]

Yah I think you played the game when you just wrote what if Herbert played for the Phins??? LOL can’t make this stuff up it is so funny

I think you need to read it again. I said what if we had Herbert's PERFORMANCE last year. Meaning if we produced 4300 yards, 31 TDs, and a QB rating of 98.3 at the QB position (and that was only for 15 starts), we probably would've made the playoffs last year.

But whatever, you are convinced Tua's the guy, I am hopeful that he is.

 

[tay0365]

Dolfans that check the forums every day may be tired of the Tua talk but you better be ready for a season of the media comparing Tua to Herbert//Burrow, as well as the new rookie QB crop.

Since the tank started in 2019, the Dolphins dumped Tannehill for a 4th round pick, used a 2nd round pick on Rosen, used a 1st round on Tua, passed on Herbert, and traded out of drafting Lance, Fields, or Jones.

Considering how much of the QB landscape the Dolphins have directly controlled the past 2 years by tanking to draft an elite QB, we're going to see Tua comparisons all day, every day until he becomes an elite QB in the league. We deserve this.

Well Miami did not actually tank, they just decided to restock their roster, leaving them thin in the talent dept, and having to play a brutally tough beginning of schedule.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

Come on man. You can have a QB play terrible and win, and you can have a QB play great and lose. You already know this. And when Tua gets us to a few SB's, you can start comparing him to Brady.

When you get to the delusional posts you should just ignore that poster....

 

[dan the fin]

So that explains why his best games were his second and third starts? Because of his hip? And there is ZERO chance Flores would start the future of the franchise at 60% when he already had a competent QB and the team was .500, if that's the 9scase, Flo should be fired.

Yes he would start him at 60% strength in a muscle/muscle group. Read my post and think about it. Not saying Tua was at an overall 60% capacity. Not saying he 60% healed. Just look at how often guys have played with a cast on broken arm/hand. Do you think that hand or arm was over a 50% capacity?

As for why he played better in game 2/3 well because players have good games and bad games. Michael Jordan scored 60 points in a game with the flu, do you think he would be better off playing all year with the flu?

Again he was 100% healthy, but he was not back to 100% (pre injury) when it comes to a strength/conditioning stand point. Now let me explain to you about how strength/conditioning works at the NFL level because it seems that you believe that the more time after the injury that a player would continue to get stronger and in better physical condition. There is a reason they have off-season strength/conditioning programs. This is where player rebuild/gain muscle. Once the season starts you are at your peak strength/conditioning level for that year (tons of players lose strength/muscle mass during the season). You body just can't handle the lifting programs to build muscle in season, the lifting program in season is just to maintain. So basically whatever level Tua was at to begin the season was his peak and probably decreased as the season went on. A great example of players losing strength/endurance is what they refer to is the rookie wall. Most college kids don't build as much strength in the off-season like in the NFL then tail off faster.

It seems like you are trying very hard to find a reason to say the hip injury was not a factor.
Basically anybody with common sense and understanding of the human body knew that the hip injury would be a factor this season.

 

[Fin-Loco]

I'll take Tua's knee over Burrow's.

 

[Feverdream]

I'll take Tua's knee over Burrow's.

But would you take Herbert's hip over Tua's?

 

[bdizzle00]

Yes he would start him at 60% strength in a muscle/muscle group. Read my post and think about it. Not saying Tua was at an overall 60% capacity. Not saying he 60% healed. Just look at how often guys have played with a cast on broken arm/hand. Do you think that hand or arm was over a 50% capacity?

As for why he played better in game 2/3 well because players have good games and bad games. Michael Jordan scored 60 points in a game with the flu, do you think he would be better off playing all year with the flu?

Again he was 100% healthy, but he was not back to 100% (pre injury) when it comes to a strength/conditioning stand point. Now let me explain to you about how strength/conditioning works at the NFL level because it seems that you believe that the more time after the injury that a player would continue to get stronger and in better physical condition. There is a reason they have off-season strength/conditioning programs. This is where player rebuild/gain muscle. Once the season starts you are at your peak strength/conditioning level for that year (tons of players lose strength/muscle mass during the season). You body just can't handle the lifting programs to build muscle in season, the lifting program in season is just to maintain. So basically whatever level Tua was at to begin the season was his peak and probably decreased as the season went on. A great example of players losing strength/endurance is what they refer to is the rookie wall. Most college kids don't build as much strength in the off-season like in the NFL then tail off faster.

It seems like you are trying very hard to find a reason to say the hip injury was not a factor.
Basically anybody with common sense and understanding of the human body knew that the hip injury would be a factor this season.

So you are saying that Flores replaced a decent QB coming off a good game on a team that was .500 with a rookie QB knowing that his hip would be a negative factor in his play?? Again, if this was the case, Flores should be fired.

 

[Kamelion4291]

I think you need to read it again. I said what if we had Herbert's PERFORMANCE last year. Meaning if we produced 4300 yards, 31 TDs, and a QB rating of 98.3 at the QB position (and that was only for 15 starts), we probably would've made the playoffs last year.

But whatever, you are convinced Tua's the guy, I am hopeful that he is.

And if Herbert's rating didn't plummet to 81 in the 4th quarter exactly like it did in college they probably would have been better than 6-9.

What-ifs are fun.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Found this interesting....not sure if it was posted before:

The chart below shows how the two quarterbacks performed on several of the most important statistics involved in calculating a quarterback’s OVM grade. Their intended air yards (IAY), their intended air yards exclusively on completions (CAY), how often they threw into tight windows (aggressiveness), their completion percentage, and their expected completion percentage according to the NFL’s calculations are all factored in.

	IAY	CAY	Agg.	Comp.%	eComp.%
Herbert	7.5	5.2	18%	66.6%	65.1%
Tua	7.7	5.3	20.3%	64.1%	65.5%

Although some have portrayed Tua as a game manager, he was actually more aggressive than Herbert across the entire season. He threw into tight coverage over two percent more often than Herbert did. Additionally, he threw the ball slightly further downfield on both his completions and incompletions.

Meanwhile, despite his inconsistencies in college, Herbert was actually the more efficient quarterback. His completion percentage was about two percent higher than Tua’s, despite his expected completion percentage being slightly lower.

It is important to remember, however, that these differences are exceedingly minute. They paint an interesting picture, but ultimately the two quarterbacks were nearly identical in most ways relating to their advanced metrics.

Comparing Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert's rookie seasons

Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert had different rookie seasons. However, there were more similarities between them than you might think.

www.profootballnetwork.com

Technically Tua threw aggressively 13% more often than Herbert, not 2%, but yeah, you aren't going to catch the pro-Herbert bois in a math conversation because they won't play.

 

[GhostArmOfMarino]

The Tua defenders are worse than the so called "haters"

He hasn't proven a thing yet at the NFL level. I hope he does. I'm not going to look to candy coat his abysmal play last year though.

 

[bdizzle00]

And if Herbert's rating didn't plummet to 81 in the 4th quarter exactly like it did in college they probably would have been better than 6-9.

What-ifs are fun.

Do you want to talk about fading? In the last 4 games of the season, Herbert threw for 8 TDs vs. 1 INT, 278 YPG, and had a rating of 112.
Tua threw for 4 TDs vs. 5 INTs, 229 YPG, and a rating of 79.5

Herbert played light years better than Tua last year. Hopefully Tua catches up.

It's amazing that so many blind Tua lovers cannot bring themselves to say that Herbert or Watson or Rodgers or whoever is better that Tua right now. It's excuse after excuse after excuse.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Do you want to talk about fading? In the last 4 games of the season, Herbert threw for 8 TDs vs. 1 INT, 278 YPG, and had a rating of 112.
Tua threw for 4 TDs vs. 5 INTs, 229 YPG, and a rating of 79.5

Herbert played light years better than Tua last year. Hopefully Tua catches up.

It's amazing that so many blind Tua lovers cannot bring themselves to say that Herbert or Watson or Rodgers or whoever is better that Tua right now. It's excuse after excuse after excuse.

Did you just strawman me and expect me to look foolish?

I hope I don't have to explain to you the difference between consistently playing worse in the 4th quarter of a game compared to the 1st with the same roster and throwing to Mack Hollins instead of Preston Williams and a healthy Parker and why that might matter.

 

[Kamelion4291]

The Tua defenders are worse than the so called "haters"

He hasn't proven a thing yet at the NFL level. I hope he does. I'm not going to look to candy coat his abysmal play last year though.

I see you used quotes for "haters".

I wonder if you're tired of being called one yet.

 

[bdizzle00]

Did you just strawman me and expect me to look foolish?

I hope I don't have to explain to you the difference between consistently playing worse in the 4th quarter of a game compared to the 1st with the same roster and throwing to Mack Hollins instead of Preston Williams and a healthy Parker and why that might matter.

More excuses. Tua will be seen as better when he produces better and is more consistent. It's as simple as that. He has a great group of weapons this year so there should be no reason he won't play much better, but if someone gets hurt, it's what every other QB in the NFL has to deal with.