Tua vs. Herbert/Burrow

[KCPhin]

It was very clear last year that Tua was not up the standard set by the other top QB picks....but I am very confident that we will see significant improvement with Tua and the gap close if not be eliminated. My confidence in Tua improvement is based on the fact that he is a very different QB than either Herbert or Burrow. Herbert and Burrow are both strong arm

Welp, made it this far...

 

[bdizzle00]

his whole offseason was about rehabbing a major injury which takes up most of your time, dealing with the emotional part of it as well, not having to deal with those physical and mental struggles is a great advantage.jmo

Yeah, I can see that. I expect to see a dramatic improvement from him this year. Should be fun to watch!

 

[superphin]

counting the jets and raider games as tua wins? 93 yards vs the rams and less than 170 vs both the chargers and pats.

but yeah, there probably aren't many other if any QBs in the league that win those games.

this team won in spite of it's ****ty QB play. not because of it.

Cool so let me try this logic but if we're not counting regular season games let's also do it for THE big game.

Bob Griese had 73 yards and 88 yards passing yards in both his SB wins. So he's not really a SB winning QB right? And without those 2 SB wins he's not up for the HOF; remove his bust!

Big Ben and John Elway had exactly 123 yards passing with 0 TDs in their 1st SB win, I guess they should each be credited with 1 SB win instead of 2.

Brady only had 145 yards in his first SB win that's less than what Trent Dilfer threw in his SB win so I guess it's time to remove the GOAT label.

 

[bdizzle00]

Cool so let me try this logic but if we're not counting regular season games let's also do it for THE big game.

Bob Griese had 73 yards and 88 yards passing yards in both his SB wins. So he's not really a SB winning QB right? And without those 2 SB wins he's not up for the HOF; remove his bust!

Big Ben and John Elway had exactly 123 yards passing with 0 TDs in their 1st SB win, I guess they should each be credited with 1 SB win instead of 2.

Brady only had 145 yards in his first SB win that's less than what Trent Dilfer threw in his SB win so I guess it's time to remove the GOAT label.

I think most fans can watch a game and tell if a player plays well or not, regardless of whether they win or lose.

Griese only threw 11 and 7 passes as the Dolphins ran the ball at an almost 5:1 ratio
Ben and Elway played terribly, and yes, their teams won in spite of them
Tom Brady played below average, but he did lead the team down the field at the end of the game to set up a game winning FG

They all get credit for the wins, just as Tua does, but it doesn't change the way they actually played. You are using SB performances as well, so if Tua plays like crap in a SB and we win, I'd be perfectly fine with that! He'd be the one to get us there.

 

[rent this space]

Didn't want Herbert before the draft still don't. Don't need a QB that freezes in crunch time

 

[Rev Kev]

Found this interesting....not sure if it was posted before:

The chart below shows how the two quarterbacks performed on several of the most important statistics involved in calculating a quarterback’s OVM grade. Their intended air yards (IAY), their intended air yards exclusively on completions (CAY), how often they threw into tight windows (aggressiveness), their completion percentage, and their expected completion percentage according to the NFL’s calculations are all factored in.

	IAY	CAY	Agg.	Comp.%	eComp.%
Herbert	7.5	5.2	18%	66.6%	65.1%
Tua	7.7	5.3	20.3%	64.1%	65.5%

Although some have portrayed Tua as a game manager, he was actually more aggressive than Herbert across the entire season. He threw into tight coverage over two percent more often than Herbert did. Additionally, he threw the ball slightly further downfield on both his completions and incompletions.

Meanwhile, despite his inconsistencies in college, Herbert was actually the more efficient quarterback. His completion percentage was about two percent higher than Tua’s, despite his expected completion percentage being slightly lower.

It is important to remember, however, that these differences are exceedingly minute. They paint an interesting picture, but ultimately the two quarterbacks were nearly identical in most ways relating to their advanced metrics.

Comparing Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert's rookie seasons

Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert had different rookie seasons. However, there were more similarities between them than you might think.

www.profootballnetwork.com

But how is it that one was t in the ROY convo?!?

Let Blue straighten this one out?

 

[bdizzle00]

But how is it that one was t in the ROY convo?!?

Let Blue straighten this one out?

Because one QB started 15 games and threw for 4336 yards, 31 TDs, 10 INTs, and had a passer rating of 98.3
And one QB started 9 games and threw for 1814 yards, 11 TDs, 5 INTs, and had a passer rating of 87.1

 

[TrogdorTheBurninator]

Doesn't mean they.know what they doing...qb position is hard..

Doesn't mean they don't either.

 

[Rev Kev]

Dolfans that check the forums every day may be tired of the Tua talk but you better be ready for a season of the media comparing Tua to Herbert//Burrow, as well as the new rookie QB crop.

Since the tank started in 2019, the Dolphins dumped Tannehill for a 4th round pick, used a 2nd round pick on Rosen, used a 1st round on Tua, passed on Herbert, and traded out of drafting Lance, Fields, or Jones.

Considering how much of the QB landscape the Dolphins have directly controlled the past 2 years by tanking to draft an elite QB, we're going to see Tua comparisons all day, every day until he becomes an elite QB in the league. We deserve this.

Love it!!! Draw the real comparisons over the course of their careers not 9 games sample sizes

Cant get enough Tua threads

I even read the ridiculous ones

This is Tua’s team he ain’t going anywhere

And play for wins not stats - People who fall for this padded stats stuff are well... ...

 

[Rev Kev]

Because one QB started 15 games and threw for 4336 yards, 31 TDs, 10 INTs, and had a passer rating of 98.3
And one QB started 9 games and threw for 1814 yards, 11 TDs, 5 INTs, and had a passer rating of 87.1

You don’t get sarcasm?

Oh right

 

[GRYPHONK]

Then why do you you say you “think we got the QB we wanted?” we picked the player we wanted, so we obviously got the player we wanted, but I think you mean more than that. What have you seen on the field so far to justify your opinion?

For me there were and are a few reasons.

We saw what Tua can do when comfortable. Arizona, KC, 3rd quarter against the Jets. He was great.

That throw he completed leading to the final FG against KC in the 4th., I still don't know how he completed that.

I saw Herbert play great early then fade late in games. Saw the opposite with Tua. This is evidenced by his 4th quarter stats which were very good.

I am ok with minimal stats through 3 quarters as long as he's not turning it over and making game losing plays, because he appears to be clutch when it matters.

Unfortunately, well never know what he would have done against thr Raiders and Broncos in the 4th. Only speculate.

He struggled when he wasn't comfortable. He checked down alone. However, he is a precision ball placement QB. HE is not a gun slinger like Herbert.

Best example is Brees. Not a strong arm but his placement was great. It took time for him to blossom, now he's a potential hall of fame.

For Tua, it's more important for his chemistry with his receivers then it is Herbert.

Once he gets it down there will be many more Arizona games than Denver IMO.

Also, how excited he was for Fitzpatrick after getting benched was good to see. No resentment or grudge. He was truly happy they bear the Raiders regardless of his benching.

Once he understands NFL open, gets chemistry and learns his receivers habits he will be electric IMO.

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

Wow...I didn't realize a innocent post would create such animosity. Hope everyone had a nice fathers day....

Yeah... so this has been talked about A LOT. Hence the responses.

Not about u tho. Found out @fishfanmiami wasn't my real dad yesterday, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here.

 

[bdizzle00]

For me there were and are a few reasons.

We saw what Tua can do when comfortable. Arizona, KC, 3rd quarter against the Jets. He was great.

That throw he completed leading to the final FG against KC in the 4th., I still don't know how he completed that.

I saw Herbert play great early then fade late in games. Saw the opposite with Tua. This is evidenced by his 4th quarter stats which were very good.

I am ok with minimal stats through 3 quarters as long as he's not turning it over and making game losing plays, because he appears to be clutch when it matters.

Unfortunately, well never know what he would have done against thr Raiders and Broncos in the 4th. Only speculate.

He struggled when he wasn't comfortable. He checked down alone. However, he is a precision ball placement QB. HE is not a gun slinger like Herbert.

Best example is Brees. Not a strong arm but his placement was great. It took time for him to blossom, now he's a potential hall of fame.

For Tua, it's more important for his chemistry with his receivers then it is Herbert.

Once he gets it down there will be many more Arizona games than Denver IMO.

Also, how excited he was for Fitzpatrick after getting benched was good to see. No resentment or grudge. He was truly happy they bear the Raiders regardless of his benching.

Once he understands NFL open, gets chemistry and learns his receivers habits he will be electric IMO.

Hope you are right! I'm not saying he can't be great, I'm just not sold that he will be yet.

 

[Rev Kev]

counting the jets and raider games as tua wins? 93 yards vs the rams and less than 170 vs both the chargers and pats.

but yeah, there probably aren't many other if any QBs in the league that win those games.

this team won in spite of it's ****ty QB play. not because of it.

Well again the league gladly handed the ROY to a QB who led his team to the worst defeat in franchise history - a franchise bolstered by a bunch of Jags on an already depleted Pats roster - Go figure???

I mean seriously a little balance would be NICE ... wins count too - ask the GOAT whether he cares who bailed him out in SBs most recently Vs. Atlanta and Seattle

A win is a win and they hard to get

 

[vcip]

I'm not so sure about that my friend

I think we got the QB we wanted

i am rooting for Tua but in a redo Herbert in a second