Tyreek: "People Are Going To Take Their Words Back On Tua" | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tyreek: "People Are Going To Take Their Words Back On Tua"

mwestberry said:
Tua has shown he can play the position ... his collegiate career is well documented. His efforts to showcase the talent he has is overshadowed by his struggles, fair or not. The reasons for his struggles are not things he can control or fix (recovering from injury, inept coaching, OL and average players (because of limited availability or skillset).

What I haven't seen is an ability to elevate the team around him when the chips are down ... when the game is getting away, I haven't seen an ability to make or BE the difference. The reasons above will limit your abilities for sure, but a fan should be able to tell with the eye test .... is the Qb making positive plays, more often than not, when the shite hits the fan?

I think Tua has what it takes .... I believe he will be a different Qb this season ... I still want to SEE him be a difference maker.
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Could that have had something to do with that "Flores" guy? - LOL
 
Mach2 said:
I see you chose to only quote a portion of my post. I can only assume that was to ignore the context.

I thought I was fairly clear about my position on individual player metrics when evaluating an offensive line as a whole.
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Right but I was asking how you determined that their offensive line as a whole was much better than the Dolphins? How did you come to that conclusion?
 
eMCee85 said:
Not to jump in your convo but... This is just me going off the top of my head but didn't Russell Wilson have to deal with a horrible o line for a few years when he first started? Herbert also had a line worse than us. Luck had a pretty bad li e for a minute too right? These are legit questions because I haven't Googled it. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here.
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If we were the worst OL in the league last year, how is it that this is ignored?
 
eMCee85 said:
Not to jump in your convo but... This is just me going off the top of my head but didn't Russell Wilson have to deal with a horrible o line for a few years when he first started? Herbert also had a line worse than us. Luck had a pretty bad li e for a minute too right? These are legit questions because I haven't Googled it. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here.
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The question is - how horrible were they compared to us last year.
Intelligent posters want to know - LOL
 
eMCee85 said:
Not to jump in your convo but... This is just me going off the top of my head but didn't Russell Wilson have to deal with a horrible o line for a few years when he first started? Herbert also had a line worse than us. Luck had a pretty bad li e for a minute too right? These are legit questions because I haven't Googled it. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here.
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Bad line and possibly one of the worst ever are not the same thing. Also Herbert benefited his rookie season when he had a bad line from 2200 yac yards to pad his stats because he had good skill position players.

That's the context. Herbert is viewed as "succeeding" with a bad line because his players gave him 2200 yards for free and Tua was viewed as "not succeeding" when his players gave him 700.

Again, our line last year wasn't just a "bad" line. It was legitimately graded as one of the worst units of all-time.
 
The Beatles said:
Right but I was asking how you determined that their offensive line as a whole was much better than the Dolphins? How did you come to that conclusion?
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Aside from the fact that they won the conference, which would not be likely if their line were collectively bottom of the league, their offense was statistically better in virtually every category (rushing yards per game, passing yards per game, rushing yards per attempt, total yards) I could go on, but what's the point?

Obviously, better skills, better offensive scheme, etc can be credited for some of the disparity, but when all is said and done I think it is almost universally accepted as fact that as your offensive line goes, so goes your offense.

There's no way you will convince me that the Bengal's line was as bad as Miami's, regardless of any grades on individual linemen. I think it is also universally accepted that a good offensive line must function as a cohesive unit. That is the main point. Miami's line was atrocious in that respect. I'm not arguing that Cincinatti's line was top ten. It wasn't, but it was collectively a hell of a lot better than ours in that aspect.

Back away from the PFF (or other) individual rankings for a moment and look at the bigger picture. You are really trying to promote a "Tua sucks" agenda, using individual linemen rankings as a weapon, when simple common sense should prevail. You aren't very likely going to get within one game of a championship, as the Bengals did, with a line as bad as ours, unless you are just a flat out dominant defense, which they were certainly not. Their line was at a minimum serviceable. Ours was not. To argue otherwise is nonsense, IMO.

You don't have to agree. Everyone has their own opinions, but I believe there are far more ppl who would be a lot closer to my view than to yours. Now, it is likely (and acceptable) that you do not care what the majority thinks. Flat earthers believe whole heartedly they are correct too.
 
The Beatles said:
You challenged me to do some research, so I did. And at your request, I wont include a single stat about sacks.

First, lets look at overall Pass Block Rating.

Pass Block Rate
Dolphins: 51.8
Bengals: 53.1
League Median: 67

So in the overall pass blocking stat, the Dolphins are worse - but BARELY. They are essentially the same and both well below the league median.

Pass Block Win Rate
Dolphins: 47%
Bengals: 49%
League Median: 61%

Run Block Win Rate
Dolphins: 71%
Bengals: 71%
League Median: 70%

Now (above) we look at how often each teams offensive line won their battle in both pass blocking and run blocking. They were identically tied for run block win rate and extremely close in pass block win rate.

Time To Throw
Dolphins: 2.5
Bengals: 2.68
Bucs: 2.5
Packers: 2.6

Now (above) we are looking at how much time the Dolphins gave Tua to throw. Average of 2.5 seconds. Which is the same time-to-throw that Brady had. And almost identical to Rodgers and Burrow, too.

Conclusion

Tua had the same amount of time to throw as Brady, and was within 0.1 seconds of Rodgers/Burrow too. He also had a run blocking line that was identical to Cinci and a pass block offensive line that lost only 2% more of its plays. By every non-sack stat I know of, the Bengals and Dolphins are extremely comparable and had essentially the same offensive line production last season.

Tl;Dr You can say that the Dolphins line was worse and I'll agree with you if you'd like. They probably were slightly worse. But it was not by much.
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No.
 
Basically it should come down to this...

2 years Weve seen what Tua can do without a good supporting cast.
2 years Tua should be given to see what he can do, now with a good supporting cast.
(Unfortunately he is said to be given only 1 yr to prove it.)

That being said, Tua supporters shouldnt credit him too much until he proves he can produce. On the other hand, his Critics shouldnt be hating until he's been given a fair shot with this years team thats built around him.
 
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