ANUFan
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Tyreek: "People Are Going To Take Their Words Back On Tua"
- Thread starter Fin-Loco
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DolfanISS
Perennial All-Pro
I agree with you but for some reason Tua is a little different IMO. You have people who thought he’d be really good and people who thought he wasn’t an NFL QB. Both sides are absolutely dying to be right about these takes. It’s like their entire QB evaluation skills, which are probably irrelevant because the don’t evaluate QB’s for a living, are hanging in the balance for the outcome of Tua. It’s actually really weird if you ask me.
I think he can be pretty good if given the tools to work with which he should have in 2022. He definitely needs to be protected which is why I think Armstead is the most important offensive player on the Dolphins. He goes down and Miami rolls out Jackson or Eich at left tackle the excuses will probably continue.
TrogdorTheBurninator
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Well, I can't fathom why wouldn't guarantee at least moderate success, assuming those pieces are still who they were last year.
So I think I understand what you mean better after typing that sentence above...
I am making some assumptions that give me some confidence in success. Is it warranted, or is it bias? I guess I can't say.
The Beatles
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You never discussed whether Allen, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, etc were good or not? I think thats pretty common among divisional fans. I try not to overstep and be insulting. I just discuss the persons play and whether I feel (in my limited knowledge because im no football expert) they are good.
Rick Cartman
It is what it is
I believe in Tua but i'm not oblivious to the concerns about him.
I do believe Tyreek believes in him, he had his option of Tua or NYJ with the mother lover.
I do believe Tyreek believes in him, he had his option of Tua or NYJ with the mother lover.
The Beatles
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Just a reminder. The Bengals O-line tied an NFL RECORD for most amount of sacks given up in a playoff game.
And they won the game.
They gave up more sacks in that 1 game than Miami's o-line had given up in any 2 games COMBINED to any one quarterback last season. That's pretty wild.
Not sure how we can say that you arent going to get within one game of a championship with a line as bad as the Dolphins, when the Bengals went to the Super Bowl with a line that gave up more sacks in 1 game than the Dolphins did in any 2 games combined.
Joe Burrow ties NFL record for most times sacked in playoff game, and rewrites history book with Bengals win
Burrow tied Warren Moon for most times sacked in a playoff game
www.cbssports.com
IMO, the extremes on either side of the debate are equally irrational. The unfortunate thing is that being in the middle will draw attacks from both sides. Maybe unfortunate is not the right word. It can be entertaining at times.
I have no doubt that Tua can be an average or even above average starting, NFL QB. That isn't the question for me. I want better than that, and he has a ways to go in proving he is a top tier guy. With the weapons now around him, this year, and possibly next, is probably the best shot he will ever get. I hope he puts my, and other's doubts to rest.
Again, you are picking a stat, and using it in a vacuum, without context.Just a reminder. The Bengals O-line tied an NFL RECORD for most amount of sacks given up in a playoff game.
And they won the game.
They gave up more sacks in that 1 game than Miami's o-line had given up in any 2 games COMBINED to any one quarterback last season. That's pretty wild.
Not sure how we can say that you arent going to get within one game of a championship with a line as bad as the Dolphins, when the Bengals went to the Super Bowl with a line that gave up more sacks in 1 game than the Dolphins did in any 2 games combined.
Joe Burrow ties NFL record for most times sacked in playoff game, and rewrites history book with Bengals win
Burrow tied Warren Moon for most times sacked in a playoff game
Burrow held the ball longer. Before you respond by saying "but it was less than a second", I will point out that .8 seconds is 30-40% longer. Irrespective of the measurement length, 30-40% of anything is a substantial difference.
I would also point out that Tua avoided taking sacks by getting rid of the ball on short routes and "dump offs". Before you say that is an inherent flaw in Tua,I would point out that for all we know, that is exactly what he was coached to do.
Do you have the pressure numbers?
TrogdorTheBurninator
Club Member
"National analyst explains why Dolphins offense will be “hell on wheels."
Not sure if that has been posted but fits this thread I think.
Warning: Barry Jackson article
The Beatles
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Is that any different than you saying; "They made the Super Bowl and therefore their line MUST be better" (which is the definition of a logical fallacy by the way)
Yes, 0.8 seconds is enough of a difference to matter.
But what about the fact that Brady had the exact same time to throw (2.5 seconds) as Tua, and the Bucs won the SB last year and playoffs this past year? Rodgers too.
I get that fans want to defend defend defend - Trust me, I did it plenty with Losman, Edwards, Manuel, Fitzpatrick, etc ... but there are plenty of teams who make noise with bad o-lines. And the Bengals were as close to horrible as you can get and they still went to the SB.
Maybe they weren't as bad as Miami's, but they were not far off. The fact that they tied a 60 year old NFL RECORD for sacks given up in a playoff game should tell you something. Or it wont, because youre a fan. Which is fine too because I have been there and done that and understand it.
So now you want to compare Tua, a guy with less than two seasons worth of starts to two of the best of their generation? Talk about logical fallacy......
Anyway I'm not the one framing the discussion in terms of Tua being good or bad. I was discussing why your assessment of the two Olines was flawed.Nothing more. Nothing less.
If you want to move it to a referendum on Tua, I'm not taking the bait. I, as many here will affirm, have been critical of Tua just as much as I have defended him. You are barking up the wrong tree on that one.
The Beatles
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Sigh. Ok.
fin007
Club Member
“Tua was a very highly drafted QB…reality is, he is expected to play at a very high level or he will be criticized and eventually replaced.”
Expectation not tempered by factual reality is an unreasonable expectation, an absurdity, even, masquerading as “expectation “
Maybe you made your mind up already. Maybe you were on the Watson train or the Brady train.
⁷Just a reminder. The Bengals O-line tied an NFL RECORD for most amount of sacks given up in a playoff game.
And they won the game.
They gave up more sacks in that 1 game than Miami's o-line had given up in any 2 games COMBINED to any one quarterback last season. That's pretty wild.
Not sure how we can say that you arent going to get within one game of a championship with a line as bad as the Dolphins, when the Bengals went to the Super Bowl with a line that gave up more sacks in 1 game than the Dolphins did in any 2 games combined.
Joe Burrow ties NFL record for most times sacked in playoff game, and rewrites history book with Bengals win
Burrow tied Warren Moon for most times sacked in a playoff game
Serious question.
QB A drops back 40 times to pass. He is sacked 10 times, and given 30 "clean pockets"
QB B drops back 40 times. Gets sacked 1 time, pressured 19 with only 20 "Clean pockets"
Which line performed better? Would a QB rather have more clean pockets and less pressures or less clean pockets, more pressures but less sacks?
A side step can be the diferrence between a sack or no sack.
A step up can be the diferrence between a sack and no sack.
A side step or step up is NOT the diferrence between a pressure or no pressure.
Your focus on solely sacks makes your comparisons of O line play or success truly flawed.