Tennessee isn't moving down to 13 in this relatively lousy draft. They wouldn't have moved down to 8 either.
Vernon Hargreaves III Tidbit
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Tennessee isn't moving down to 13 in this relatively lousy draft. They wouldn't have moved down to 8 either.
none of this is correct. not one part. i don't what's funnier, thinking DEs aren't important or comparing allen to vh3. the only thing they have in common is they played in the sec. different positions, skill sets, and allen wasn't ever any good. saban was just all butt hurt he lost allen to tennessee so he tried to be the smartest guy in the room and overdraft someone based on 'measurables', a classic mistake.
be honest, have you ever even watched hargreaves play? i've seen every snap. he was better than haden in college, and unless he gets hurt or has some mental baggage i don't know about will be better than him in the pros. but watch us miss out on a true technician and student of the game like hargreaves for some raw, 'measurables' guy like apple. apple will take time and MIGHT be good. vh3 is prepackaged and WILL be good right out of the gate.
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NaboCane
I'm on my comma
While I respect your opinion, I disagree wholeheartedly.
Hargreaves most certainly is a guy who used his athleticism to overcome his weaknesses in college; he will find that impossible in the pros. That's why I compared him to Jason Allen.
Brent grimes is the same height as Hargreaves; he is a very good NFL Corner, and he has years of experience. Yet every receiver over 6'1" made Grimes his bitch last season.
Hargreaves is going to find the NFL a tough go once he gets on the field. The NFL has changed, and if you deny that and stick to outdated precepts, you will pay the prices in losses.
another off comparison. grimes got beat like a drum last season because he's done. head knew what to do but his body couldn't keep up ... resulting in him falling all over the place like he was playing on ice. vh3 is at least an inch and a half taller and almost 30 lbs heavier (177 grimes combine weight ... vh3 205) ... and vh3 still blew grimes out of the water combine wise.
a good comparison is haden and vh3. went to the same school, about the same size (haden is an inch taller but was 10 lbs lighter at the combine), same skill sets, receiving the same hype and same criticism coming out. (haden was too small, too slow, gambled too much, didn't wrap up like he should ... sound familiar?) do we think the browns are upset they relied on antiquated concepts to find a top notch corner?
hoops
Tua time!
grimes is a good comparison in terms of click and close and balance and instincts and route recognition...very good comparison...not this years version of grimes but grimes in his prime...only difference is Hargreaves can play a solid press I don't think grimes could
I think they both also though can have issues vs size on the boundary...I'd expect that to carry over some for Hargreaves but be lessened in a off man and zone scheme where he can face the action and the ball more and his elite awareness help offset
I think they both also though can have issues vs size on the boundary...I'd expect that to carry over some for Hargreaves but be lessened in a off man and zone scheme where he can face the action and the ball more and his elite awareness help offset
I see no issue with vh3 in press. You want the corner to mirror a receiver in press and no db in this class does it as well as him, not even close. His route recognition and awareness are off the charts ... let QBs try to take advantage of his lack of ideal size and watch what happens.
He might ideally be suited for off man but he's scheme versatile ... never a bad thing.
It's all a moot point because he won't be there anyway and tbaum is a measurables nut so I'm assuming they're looking at apple and Jackson III at 13 ... hoping it's the latter
He might ideally be suited for off man but he's scheme versatile ... never a bad thing.
It's all a moot point because he won't be there anyway and tbaum is a measurables nut so I'm assuming they're looking at apple and Jackson III at 13 ... hoping it's the latter
hoops
Tua time!
we'll disagree on who the best pure press corner is in the class...but I will give you an example of size on the boundary
let me first start this by saying that amari cooper is as polished as they come but hes not a high point or physically maul you and body you out for position wr...so having established that
I have seen Vernon Hargreaves play a red zone fade route to cooper as well as they come...I mean textbook from the walling out of the wr to the getting the head around and locating the football but the end result was a td...why is that? because he lost physically at the catch point and played small when the ball was in the air
that should be a legitimate concern for everyone...if you can do everything right technique wise and still lose to a non play the ball in the air wr how you think you gonna handle a devantae parker in that much space when teams throw the ball over your head and with his elite ball tracking ability body positioning and ball skills? I tell ya what I think toe taps for tds
in terms of defending size id prefer eli apple who while he doesn't have all of Hargreaves techniques he has all the physical abilities and measurables you look for on the boundary...and he can handle a quick inside or outside redirect off the los with the best of them and match foot work even
press and cover 2 on the boundary I will take apple...off man and zone give me hargreaves
let me first start this by saying that amari cooper is as polished as they come but hes not a high point or physically maul you and body you out for position wr...so having established that
I have seen Vernon Hargreaves play a red zone fade route to cooper as well as they come...I mean textbook from the walling out of the wr to the getting the head around and locating the football but the end result was a td...why is that? because he lost physically at the catch point and played small when the ball was in the air
that should be a legitimate concern for everyone...if you can do everything right technique wise and still lose to a non play the ball in the air wr how you think you gonna handle a devantae parker in that much space when teams throw the ball over your head and with his elite ball tracking ability body positioning and ball skills? I tell ya what I think toe taps for tds
in terms of defending size id prefer eli apple who while he doesn't have all of Hargreaves techniques he has all the physical abilities and measurables you look for on the boundary...and he can handle a quick inside or outside redirect off the los with the best of them and match foot work even
press and cover 2 on the boundary I will take apple...off man and zone give me hargreaves
I gave up on the idea of getting him when we traded down.
If he's still on the board at #13, I'll get excited. :idk:
If he's still on the board at #13, I'll get excited. :idk:
I just don't get the hype with apple in the top 15. He needs polish in a big way. Has the measurables teams fall all over themselves for but technique needs work. So much more risk with apple than vh3, even if one might fit the criteria you're looking for more than the other. Would feel way more comfortable with him in the 2nd
I won't go to absolutes yet because Joseph is supposedly a DB guru (like Coyle was supposed to be) so if we get him at 13 I won't go on a mad drinking binge like I did when we traded up for jordan - presuming hargreaves is long gone. It could be worse than apple. I just think it will be better with vh3
I won't go to absolutes yet because Joseph is supposedly a DB guru (like Coyle was supposed to be) so if we get him at 13 I won't go on a mad drinking binge like I did when we traded up for jordan - presuming hargreaves is long gone. It could be worse than apple. I just think it will be better with vh3
Vol&dolfan
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The plays where Chesson beats him deep are at 44:10 and 1:28:10 hope that helps.
Yes Von Miller is listed as a SOLB but there can be some confusion at first glance so let's really look at it. You want to know the biggest difference between a 4-3 Under LDE and Von Miller as a SOLB in Phillip's 3-4?
Von Miller plays in a two pt stance while the traditional 4-3 Under LDE plays with his hand in the dirt in a 3. Flip sides and formation wise that's the only difference. Miller was used more often than not lined up on the LOS at the 9 tech in a 2 pt stance.
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BMarsh!
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As a gator fan I like VH3 he had a disappointing year last season. But Keanu Neal is a stud at safety, he brings the wood and forces fumbles and can get ints would love him in the second, I hope we draft a safety in rounds 2 or 3
NaboCane
I'm on my comma
Now we're talkin'. But Von Miller is SO much more than a DE; he's a guy who stands out there and wrecks plays in motion. He's not necessarily engaged with a blocker, he's looking for the ball so he can kill the guy carrying it. He's a monster. Now, take that guy, put his hand in the dirt across from a 320lb behemoth with bad intentions, and you've now turned him into something the Offense can deal with easier. You've neutered him for the opposing team, and they thank you.
A prime example of that? The way Philbin and Coyle used Olivier Vernon. They kept a dragon chained up. Vernon could be Von Miller, or at least close; the speed is similar; Von is 6'3" 254, Vernon is 6'2" 261.
What do you want to bet that the NYG are going to use Olivier exactly the way the Donks use Miller? And that crazy contract is going to look like just the going price next offseason for a guy you cut loose to wreck Offenses?
NaboCane
I'm on my comma
Neal's stock is rising, to the point that probably one of the playoff teams will steal him in the late 1st round.
Not going to disagree with Von Miller's assesment there nor with OV's use under a very very good DC in Spagnoalo in NY. Good points.