Waddle vs Smith | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Waddle vs Smith

These guys seem to be wide open during the highlights. My question is who has the best ability to get open and give Tua the quick targets? Still believe 3 is too high for a receiver, always concerned about injury risk. It is worth risking a trade down and picking up player(s) such as Marshall or Toney if we can select 2 receivers instead of one only.
Waddle provides versatility in the fielld.
My interest in Waddle is his speed, much like it was with Ruggs. I am intrigued. My interest with Smith is his ability to separate, much like Jarvis Landry but with much greater speed. My concern with Ruggs, Waddle and Smith is that they are not physical enough to get off the jam and stay on their routes versus NFL physicality. It will effect whether they are able to get to the spot in their routes when the route requires them to be there, thus creating a window for a precision passer like Tua. In college, almost no DB's are physical, and the receivers' superior speed and quickness almost always dominated the guys they faced.

But one of the biggest jumps up at any position from college to the NFL is at CB, where the press-man corners go from being laughable boys to becoming ultra-quick Paul Bunyon men. It's the story of why someone like Richard Sherman or Xavien Howard can become great in the NFL while only being good at the collegiate level. That level of maturation, development, and muscle use to dominate is simply a different level in the NFL.

There are a lot of receivers who struggle and never really beat that coverage consistently. With the evolution of the route complexity in today's NFL, the OC requires each WR to be exactly where the play calls for them to be--particularly against 1v1 coverage so they can exploit the matchup. In today's NFL, the first option in the route is usually 70% ofthe play design, and if the guy cannot win that route 90% of the time, the whole offense falls apart. Now, for plays farther downfield, those speed guys can do what is required, but most passes today are short passes, which is where those press-man corners dominate and literally shut down offenses. Tyreke Hill typically doesn't catch many 5 yard plays vs. press coverage, but if he can get past the initial bump zone, he can turn intermediate throws into huge gains.

Realistically, Smith probably weighs about 165, and NEEDS an extra 20 pounds of muscle on that tall, skinny frame to even have a chance at not being consistently manhandled. Putting on 20 lbs. of muscle isn't easy, and it definitely will affect his speed and quickness. He simply isn't going to survive the redirect at the LOS against good press-man coverage .... and every DC who employs that type of coverage will dominate him. Waddle will get open more like Jakeem Grant as his speed will scare a lot of DB's and he may be able to juke his way past press-man 50% or more of the time .... but he's still going to be unreliable. Guys like Jamar Chase, who is bigger, beefier, stronger, and does well against that sort of physicality can shine. Someone like Kyle Pitts who is kind of a Shannon Sharpe type WR or Move TE hybrid pass catcher will have no trouble with it. Those are the guys who I see becoming successful and have no fear of adjusting to the physical NFL coverage.
The other thing is that in the NFL defenses can adapt to containing and defending players that have that breakaway speed by using more elaborate defensive coverage schemes. And the fact that quarterbacks have less time to throw the ball away.
 
Except that when CBs tried to press Smith they usually got burnt. Chase, despite being bigger and stronger actually got shut down more effectively at the line than Smith. This criticism of Smith is based on the number on the scale and a perception of his frame and not based on the film. I don't see that as good evaluation.
Torry Holt was smiths size and no more than 200 lbs in his career. Out of college he was the same weight. And the few times our mighty defense faced the rams they abused us.
 
Smith beats press with amazing footwork.
This is something people aren't putting much weight in and its mind boggling.

2 primary jobs of a WR......get open and catch the ball. He does both amazingly. He will move the chains consistenly. He gets so much separation that we will never need to throw jump or contested balls. YAC will come when he is 3yds away from the CB he just juked while running a route. I just don't get why people aren't high on him because of his weight.

#3 all day!
 
The only thing u can do take chance on player.. a lot of them will probably be bust,some will be avg and above avg. Very Few will be great. The nfl draft is hype show. We will see when pad come on..who is for real and who aint..

Shhhhhh don't tell finheaven this! They think every year we will have an opportunity to draft a future Hall of famer and that's why they don't want to trade for Watson but in reality we would really be giving up a Austin Jackson, Noah Iggy, Robert hunt and Tua type picks for a top 5 elite QB who could change our franchise immediately. But let's keep the above mentioned studs because this draft will be different!
 
Torry Holt was smiths size and no more than 200 lbs in his career. Out of college he was the same weight. And the few times our mighty defense faced the rams they abused us.
If you have to go back two decades for examples, they are called "outliers", and should never be used to prove a point. Same thing as when ppl use a Marvin Harrison comp.

It's better as proof that guys with that "build" rarely overcome it, than that an individual will.
 
If you have to go back two decades for examples, they are called "outliers", and should never be used to prove a point. Same thing as when ppl use a Marvin Harrison comp.

It's better as proof that guys with that "build" rarely overcome it, than that an individual will.

Guys like Torry Holt, and Marvin Harrison weren't the biggest receivers of their time. If anything, the whole point of the matter is that build isn't the determining factor of a wide receivers career. Hope that makes sense bro.
 
Guys like Torry Holt, and Marvin Harrison weren't the biggest receivers of their time. If anything, the whole point of the matter is that build isn't the determining factor of a wide receivers career. Hope that makes sense bro.
You seriously don't see the basic statistical flaw in that type of comparison??????

Yes, it is "possible" for a reciever to overcome physical limitations. It isn't common, and is not a good bet.

In those specific cases, one had Mike Martz, the other PM. I'm not so sure those guys had the same overall careers if put in different situations.
 
You seriously don't see the basic statistical flaw in that type of comparison??????

Yes, it is "possible" for a reciever to overcome physical limitations. It isn't common, and is not a good bet.

In those specific cases, one had Mike Martz, the other PM. I'm not so sure those guys had the same overall careers if put in different situations.
Of course it is uncommon. Both receivers would still be great in this era. If anything, they would have better stats since we are in a heavy passing era. As for Holt, he managed to attain over 1,000 yards for every season he played except three. Caught over 1,600 yards twice in his career while playing next to other great receivers. We are in a heavy passing era, if anything these receivers would be able to catch 2,000 receiving yards if they were still around.
 
I think the optimal fit for Tua right now, which is non existant on the roster is separation and precision. These 2 traits are what enables the offense to scratch every once of production out of Tua IMO. With that in mind, I'd go with Smith. If the Fins already had one of their top 2 WRs being a good technician when it comes to running routes and being there on time, then I'd go with Waddle....

In other words, if you're going to start from scratch, I think you need a Smith before you think about a Waddle.
 
Of course it is uncommon. Both receivers would still be great in this era. If anything, they would have better stats since we are in a heavy passing era. As for Holt, he managed to attain over 1,000 yards for every season he played except three. Caught over 1,600 yards twice in his career while playing next to other great receivers. We are in a heavy passing era, if anything these receivers would be able to catch 2,000 receiving yards if they were still around.
Maybe I'm missing something.

What does any of that have to do with Waddle v Smith, or a comparison of?
 
You seriously don't see the basic statistical flaw in that type of comparison??????

Yes, it is "possible" for a reciever to overcome physical limitations. It isn't common, and is not a good bet.

In those specific cases, one had Mike Martz, the other PM. I'm not so sure those guys had the same overall careers if put in different situations.
To me it is Parker and Williams who have physical limitations because they seem to always be injuries. Yet they are both considered big WR’s in the NFL. Give me Smith, Waddle , or Chase over these two injury prone WR’s any day of the week.
 
I think the optimal fit for Tua right now, which is non existant on the roster is separation and precision. These 2 traits are what enables the offense to scratch every once of production out of Tua IMO. With that in mind, I'd go with Smith. If the Fins already had one of their top 2 WRs being a good technician when it comes to running routes and being there on time, then I'd go with Waddle....

In other words, if you're going to start from scratch, I think you need a Smith before you think about a Waddle.
I go with neither as a top 5 pick, because I am a believer in "bigger, stronger, faster".
 
Maybe I'm missing something.

What does any of that have to do with Waddle v Smith, or a comparison of?

We were discussing Smith's size. In reality, his size isn't a concern. He will add a good 10-15 over his playing career. He hasn't been the first receiver to lack build, and won't be the last one. Not picking him because of his size is almost like overlooking all the other great things he does better than some of the prospects named alongside him during this draft.
 
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