We Are In A Better Qb Situation Then Any Other Team In The Nfl | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

We Are In A Better Qb Situation Then Any Other Team In The Nfl

AdamC13 said:
Too comical. I've read plenty, watched plenty and listened to plenty of analysis. He developed some poor habits and was a much better prospect coming out UCLA last year than coming out of the Cards system this year. Rather than improving his play at the end of the year like most rookie QBs, he got worse. I wasn't expecting him to carry the Cards on his back, but I do expect a QB to improve his play as he gets more experience if he is going to become a franchise type QB.

It may not be entirely his fault for developing some poor habits, but it is his responsibility to deal with them. And are you so naive to think that Miami is an ideal situation that has a good offensive line and a proven coach? Perhaps you should read some of the posts on finheaven yourself.

And enough with the ridiculous "he is more likely to be that promising 1st round draft of last year" crud. Every other team in the NFL, including Miami doesn't agree with you on that. Every team looking for a QB to play right away or groom as a replacement passed on trading for Rosen not only in the 1st round, but also the 2nd. Even Miami was okay not getting Rosen with their mid-2nd round pick as they traded back to the end of the round, assuring they will have a 2nd round pick next year, before rolling the dice. If Miami evaluated him as "likely" being that promising top 10 draft pick from last year as claimed they wouldn't have risked losing him by trading back in the 2nd.

This crazy, illogical formula you are using is just ridiculous. Same formula Tannehill fans used for 7 years...poor play by QB + poor numbers demonstrating poor play by QB + didn't have good coaches + didn't have enough talent around them = good QB. This is the formula you are using to rebuke my question, "Rosen has proved himself to be a relatively competent QB in the NFL?" Seriously, bring something more than that to support your claim Rosen is a relatively competent QB. Wishing it so, doesn't make it so.

I actually like Rosen as a person, thought he had a chance to be an elite QB in the NFL when he was a freshman at UCLA but he hasn't shown he's anywhere close to that level of play. I'm open to him being that since he is on the Dolphins, but he far from that right now. Looks more like a fantasy than becoming a reality at this point.

The way I look at the QB position is that it is by far the most influential position in football determining the game. So important in fact that if a team doesn't have a top 10 QB that team has QB problems and is in need of an upgrade. Teams can get away without having top 10 talent at other positions and still make annual trips to the playoffs, but not at QB.

I think the odds that Rosen, given what we've seen, is going to be better than any of the following...Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers, Wilson, Ryan, Luck, Newton, Wentz, Prescott, Goff, Trubinsky, Watson, Mayfield is less than 1%. Even the odds of him surpassing the majority of the next level QBs...Wilson, Cousins, Mariotta, Carr, Stafford, Garoppolo, Foles, Dalton is less than 10% at this point. The young pups Murray, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Haskins are all much more likely to succeed. Of course, there are the QBs soon to follow...Tua, Hebert, Fromm, Lawrence that are more likely to succeed.

At this point, it looks like Miami will be much better served if they end up with Tua next year or even Hebert or Fromm. Rosen has his shot this year and things could change by the end of the season, but not likely. Who knows, he might become a quality for the Dolphins given his contract.[/QUOTE]

Your last statement (bolded) is something I can agree with.
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Good God.

I read this thread, and it’s like a who’s who of “realism police.” Nothing wrong with optimism, particularly at the start of training camp.

Hope springs anew, haters. Go **** yourselves.

Good job, Ray.
 
If you changed your title I might agree. How about “We are in the best Transitional Qb position in The league”. I could sign on to that... We have a solid Journeyman holding down the starting position for now and a 2nd year top 10ish pick, potential Franchise 1st rounder we acquired for nearly a 3rd rounder with a huge upside. Both contracts are team friendly and for 2 years plus if it doesn’t work out we’ve acquired enough draft stock to trade up to take the pick of the litter at QB in 20’. If we move on from one or both there are no significant cap consequences. Now I would consider that the best transitional QB situation in the league.

As far as your statement I don’t think a .500 Journeyman and unproven 2nd year QB regardless of name merits that distinction.
 
Ray R said:
We have 2 QB's with enough skill to be a starters on many of the other teams in this league.

Some teams don't even have one good starter. Consider the fragility of the Titans situation, or the questions the Bills are facing at QB and you may begin to see how we may be a step ahead of many teams with the combination of the two QB's we have.

One of ours is highly experienced with some degree of success. He is not breaking the bank with his salary.

One of ours just completed a rookie season under the tutelage of several coaches and a responsibility to learn, know and play immediately in 2 or 3 different systems behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league. He took his licks.

After the most bazar off season QB situation I've ever seen, our 2nd year QB saw another new coach come in and a 1st round QB being drafted (one the new coach specifically requested). When he was traded to the Dolphins, he was able to make the transition without bad-mouthing any body and actually showing a little sense of humor (telling the new QB he knew where an apartment would be available). He came in a trade for a 2nd round draft pick and his rookie salary.

It seems reasonable to me, that our new coaches will start with the more experienced player. It is possible, but not probable, that our 2nd year QB will displace our starter for the first part of the season.

As the season progresses I feel we will see our 2nd year QB start some games. This may be due to a QB injury, or a coaching judgment that he is now well enough versed in the new playbook to be successful. No matter what the reason, I think we will see both our QB's starting some games this year.

I have intentionally left out the QB's names to (hopefully) encourage you guys to look at situation for what it is and not generate some overstated reactions when you hear or read the QB's names. Just my attempt to reduce the lemming juice that gets sprayed around in these posts so often.
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I Love Preseason optimism as much as the next guy. All fans have it very heavy in Buffalo every year so I get it. However, what is the tired and true NFL statement. “When you have Two QBs you really do not have any”.

Also in terms of value Rosen now has a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and (2) 5th round picks attached to him. Needs to be ALOT better than he has been (and I am not sure there is much more ceiling to him) to really justify the picks attached to his name
 
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Miami needs to **** around and draft a top flight prospect. That's either, 1) Trading up for one or 2) sucking a losing for one.

Rosen has good traits but theyve been removed from his mind because of bad coaching. If he can get them back then Miami may have something. Until then it's all hope and dreams.
 
Miami is in a great spot bc if Rosen isn’t the guy and the team stinks, they get their pick of QB next year and benefit greatly from it.

It’s a different situation than those teams that have current great QBs but I understand the sentiment.
 
Ray R said:
We have 2 QB's with enough skill to be a starters on many of the other teams in this league.

Some teams don't even have one good starter. Consider the fragility of the Titans situation, or the questions the Bills are facing at QB and you may begin to see how we may be a step ahead of many teams with the combination of the two QB's we have.

One of ours is highly experienced with some degree of success. He is not breaking the bank with his salary.

One of ours just completed a rookie season under the tutelage of several coaches and a responsibility to learn, know and play immediately in 2 or 3 different systems behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league. He took his licks.

After the most bazar off season QB situation I've ever seen, our 2nd year QB saw another new coach come in and a 1st round QB being drafted (one the new coach specifically requested). When he was traded to the Dolphins, he was able to make the transition without bad-mouthing any body and actually showing a little sense of humor (telling the new QB he knew where an apartment would be available). He came in a trade for a 2nd round draft pick and his rookie salary.

It seems reasonable to me, that our new coaches will start with the more experienced player. It is possible, but not probable, that our 2nd year QB will displace our starter for the first part of the season.

As the season progresses I feel we will see our 2nd year QB start some games. This may be due to a QB injury, or a coaching judgment that he is now well enough versed in the new playbook to be successful. No matter what the reason, I think we will see both our QB's starting some games this year.

I have intentionally left out the QB's names to (hopefully) encourage you guys to look at situation for what it is and not generate some overstated reactions when you hear or read the QB's names. Just my attempt to reduce the lemming juice that gets sprayed around in these posts so often.
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Full disclosure here: I am a Bills fan, born and raised in Western New York.

There were more Bills fans who wanted Rosen then there were fans who wanted Allen. There were also a fair number of Bills fans who vehemently DID NOT WANT ROSEN. That being said, I'm not sure there are more than a handful of Bills fans alive who would still take Rosen over Allen. We are straight up in love with Allen.

The book is certainly still open on Rosen. Personally, I'd put even odds that he can turn into an NFL QB. But, I'd say the chances of him becoming elite are close to nil. He just doesn't have the arm strength.

Fitz, as I'm sure you all know, spent four years as a Bill, much of his time as starter. I'm a big fan of his, as are many Bills fans, just for his character, and intelligence alone. (I remember reading an article (I think in SI?) years ago about how Fitz was not only the smartest player in the NFL, but one of the smartest athletes in all of sports-- yes, he is very smart!)

But, Fitz will drive you crazy! He will run hot and cold with streaks lasting four to six weeks. He'll get signed as a backup, and somehow, through injury or performance, take the reigns as starter, and tear it up for several games, giving the fanbase a boost of hope, and then.... CRASH. Down his numbers go. He's a gunslinger who can make or break a game.

I will say this about Fitz-- he is one of the best backups in the league. But, he isn't more than that.

Bottom line: I don't think there are too many fanbases in the league, and NONE in the AFCE who are envious of your QB situation.
 
Rocky Landing said:
Full disclosure here: I am a Bills fan, born and raised in Western New York.

There were more Bills fans who wanted Rosen then there were fans who wanted Allen. There were also a fair number of Bills fans who vehemently DID NOT WANT ROSEN. That being said, I'm not sure there are more than a handful of Bills fans alive who would still take Rosen over Allen. We are straight up in love with Allen.

The book is certainly still open on Rosen. Personally, I'd put even odds that he can turn into an NFL QB. But, I'd say the chances of him becoming elite are close to nil. He just doesn't have the arm strength.

Fitz, as I'm sure you all know, spent four years as a Bill, much of his time as starter. I'm a big fan of his, as are many Bills fans, just for his character, and intelligence alone. (I remember reading an article (I think in SI?) years ago about how Fitz was not only the smartest player in the NFL, but one of the smartest athletes in all of sports-- yes, he is very smart!)

But, Fitz will drive you crazy! He will run hot and cold with streaks lasting four to six weeks. He'll get signed as a backup, and somehow, through injury or performance, take the reigns as starter, and tear it up for several games, giving the fanbase a boost of hope, and then.... CRASH. Down his numbers go. He's a gunslinger who can make or break a game.

I will say this about Fitz-- he is one of the best backups in the league. But, he isn't more than that.

Bottom line: I don't think there are too many fanbases in the league, and NONE in the AFCE who are envious of your QB situation.
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Wait until they lose their QB for the season and see what they have to say.
 
BillsFanInPeace said:
I Love Preseason optimism as much as the next guy. All fans have it very heavy in Buffalo every year so I get it. However, what is the tired and true NFL statement. “When you have Two QBs you really do not have any”.

Also in terms of value Rosen now has a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and (2) 5th round picks attached to him. Needs to be ALOT better than he has been (and I am not sure there is much more ceiling to him) to really justify the picks attached to his name
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Before we start worrying about a QB's ceiling, maybe we should be concerned with their floor.

Rosen was on such a poor team in terms of coaching and personnel (primarily the offensive line) that he was actually buried beneath his floor. Will he be able to come back from last year? That is the big question in my mind.

I believe he will come out as a better and more balanced QB due to his experience last year. We still need to know how good our coaching staff will turn out, but there is enough experience there to justify a VERY positive attitude about how they will perform. I see our coaching staff as another point in favor of Rosen making SIGNIFICANT improvement this year.
 
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Digital said:
Well with low expectations and plenty of draft picks to select other positions, we seem to be well situated for a 2020 draft that headlines 3 legitimate top echelon prospects at QB--Fromm, Tua, Herbert--in whichever order you prefer. So, if neither of these two capable QB prospects on the roster claims the spot, we are also in an ideal situation to get our QB of the future in the 2020 draft. This is also a good spot to be in when considering the QB position. Regardless of whether you call this Plan A, B, or C, it does bode well for the future.
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We should all be watching college football this year. This could be the most important draft of the next decade for us. We need to watch how these QB's progress and how the QBs drafted this year(Lock and Haskins) play in the NFL.
 
Rocky Landing said:
Who do you think has the higher likelihood of going down: Allen, or Rosen?
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I think that has more to do with the protection the QB gets then anything else.

I am not in a position to even make an estimate about the Bills offensive line (I don't watch them very often) and there are too many unknowns at this point for me to make any assumptions about the Dolphins offensive line which certainly needs to improve. Our new coaching staff has their work cut out for them, but it is not the insurmountable hurdle a lot of the posters here seem to think it is.

As a matter of fact, it is unclear at this time if and when Rosen will play.

The best prediction I feel I can make is that Fitz may not make it past our 6th game.

I hope that helps.
 
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