Welker trade gets even uglier for Fins - ESPN article

[dlockz]

First off, thank you to everybody for reading my work and taking the time to comment on it.

Nut you're getting too wrapped up in the "poison pill" that you're missing the point. Just because the Dolphins were going to lose Welker anyway doesn't mean they had to lose the trade.

The Dolphins were the ones who placed the second-round tender on Welker, which means that's where they valued him. In addition, all they had to do was select a serviceable player with their second-round pick, a starter for the next six or seven years would have been fine.

Based on information coming out of Davie the past couple weeks, they failed to do that. The Dolphins don’t think Satele is starting material. Therefore, the Dolphins are on the verge of not even being able to compete any more when it comes to sizing up this trade.

So the Dolphins trade a receiver for picks, one of which is a center.

What are two of their biggest needs heading into 2009? Receiver and center.'

Bottom line, regardless of the context: They squandered two prime assets and have nothing to show for it.

If you think a trade that lopsided is justified, then so be it. My standards must be different.

I get what you are saying. I just think you look at the pick and not what a team does with a pick. Its not our fault that we had boobs running this team. I mean was our trade for Aj Feeley basically fair because they chose Reggie Brown?

 

[Tim_Graham]

I get what you are saying. I just think you look at the pick and not what a team does with a pick. Its not our fault that we had boobs running this team. I mean was our trade for Aj Feeley basically fair because they chose Reggie Brown?

I didn't write the trade was unfair. I merely wrote that if Satele is a bust (as it appears the Dolphins front office believes he is), then debate over this trade is over now. And I don't think it was over after 2007. If Satele starts for a few years, then I think it's a respectable trade -- the Patriots still would have won the trade, but the Satele pick could have made it reasonable.

This story wasn't NEWSFLASH: Dolphins lose trade.

It was UPDATE: Dolphins no longer in the contest just two years later.

 

[dlockz]

I didn't write the trade was unfair. I merely wrote that is Satele is a bust, as it appears the Dolphins front office believes he is, then debate over this trade is over. And I don't think it was after 2007. If Satele starts for a few years, then I think it's a respectable trade -- the Patriots still would have won the trade, but the Satele pick could have made it reasonable.

This story wasn't NEWSFLASH: Dolphins lose trade.

It was UPDATE: Dolphins no longer in the contest just two years later.

I still think they got great value for Welker at the time, they just quite possibly blew the pick. I was never a fan of the pick.
As you can see from my review of the pick after the draft

Samson satele C.
A guy with a good amount of potential, I'm not a big fan of him at center because he struggled with Qb in normal formation quite a bit. I don't think he is our C of future, I think we will use him at guard. Not a great run blocker but should get better with coaching and is very aggressive.
I would have taken Ryan Harris first round talent just been injured. I am basing this not knowing where he will end up.

Not thrilled with drafting either guy in round 2 but if they wanted Beck he was not going to be there in round 3.

 

[Nublar7]

I didn't write the trade was unfair. I merely wrote that if Satele is a bust (as it appears the Dolphins front office believes he is), then debate over this trade is over now. And I don't think it was over after 2007. If Satele starts for a few years, then I think it's a respectable trade -- the Patriots still would have won the trade, but the Satele pick could have made it reasonable.

This story wasn't NEWSFLASH: Dolphins lose trade.

It was UPDATE: Dolphins no longer in the contest just two years later.

The possibility though remains that Satele could be moved to guard and maybe find a niche there. Satele played the 08' season with a torn labrum and maybe a move to guard is what he needs to get back on track. Maybe Satele the center is turning out to be a bust, but that doesn't mean Satele the player is done completely. At 24 years old, he still potentially has a lot of football left.

 

[Tim_Graham]

Just one last thing to emphasize what I was going after.

I think many people read my Welker-Satele post (or didn't read it at all, but commented because they saw the topic of this thread and assumed what I wrote) and thought I didn't know the whole story. But the background wasn't necessary.

I was sizing up the trade as one where the Dolphins could have saved some face, but instead fell on it.

Here is a passage from Armando Salguero, who I respect and whose opinion I value, from May:

Mueller was ripped for trading Wes Welker for a second and a seventh-round selection. I believe that trade will eventually be seen as a trade that helped both teams and perhaps the Dolphins more than the Pats.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2008/05/hows-randy-muel.html

The reason I post this is because, as Armando wrote, it was considered possible after Satele's rookie year that the Dolphins still could win the trade. Now we're learning Satele's not good enough to start, a sentiment that's relatively recent and, in my opinion, newsworthy.

That alters perspective on the Welker trade in my mind.

 

[Tim_Graham]

The possibility though remains that Satele could be moved to guard and maybe find a niche there. Satele played the 08' season with a torn labrum and maybe a move to guard is what he needs to get back on track. Maybe Satele the center is turning out to be a bust, but that doesn't mean Satele the player is done completely. At 24 years old, he still potentially has a lot of football left.

I agree with that being a possibility. But they're also talking about moving Carey to guard and Donald Thomas is coming back. Satele emerging as the starting right guard might be difficult.

 

[dlockz]

Just one last thing to emphasize what I was going after.

I think many people read my Welker-Satele post (or didn't read it at all, but commented because they saw the topic of this thread and assumed what I wrote) and thought I didn't know the whole story. But the background wasn't necessary.

I was sizing up the trade as one where the Dolphins could have saved some face, but instead fell on it.

Here is a passage from Armando Salguero, who I respect and whose opinion I value, from May:

Mueller was ripped for trading Wes Welker for a second and a seventh-round selection. I believe that trade will eventually be seen as a trade that helped both teams and perhaps the Dolphins more than the Pats.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2008/05/hows-randy-muel.html

The reason I post this is because, as Armando wrote, it was considered possible after Satele's rookie year that the Dolphins still could win the trade. Now we're learning Satele's not good enough to start, a sentiment that's relatively recent and, in my opinion, newsworthy.

That alters perspective on the Welker trade in my mind.

Too often people dont actually read a post they just see the title, author or whatever they want to read into it.

 

[Nublar7]

I agree with that being a possibility. But they're also talking about moving Carey to guard and Donald Thomas is coming back. Satele emerging as the starting right guard might be difficult.

That is true and it is very possible he could become the odd man out. However, there is talk that Carey may not get a long term deal and could hit the market, and Thomas is coming off a Lisfranc fracture, which is a pretty significant foot injury.

Obviously I would love to see Carey and Thomas return, but it is not something you can 100% guarantee will happen. Plus Smiley is returning from yet another injury and shoulder surgery at LG. On paper it looks like Miami should be set at guard with Thomas, Smiley and possibly Carey, but there are a lot of "ifs" regarding them. Satele getting a shot at guard may be inevitable, and what if he surprises the coaches and excels?

 

[Tim_Graham]

Don't forget Shawn Murphy.

Yes, that's a joke.

A starting center and a starting guard aren't the same value, so I will say if Satele makes the transition to guard he had better do more than just start to justify his second-round selection. Take a look at how many guards get drafted on the first day compared to tackles and centers. Big difference, underscored when guys like Donald Thomas, Ike Ndukwe and Andy Alleman crack the starting lineup.

 

[dlockz]

Don't forget Shawn Murphy.

Yes, that's a joke.

A starting center and a starting guard aren't the same value, so I will say if Satele makes the transition to guard he had better do more than just start to justify his second-round selection. Take a look at how many guards get drafted on the first day compared to tackles and centers. Big difference, underscored when guys like Donald Thomas, Ike Ndukwe and Andy Alleman crack the starting lineup.

Although Im not huge on Shawn Murphy and it looks real bad that he could not crack a broken line, he may actually get it together with a full offseason. He is a pretty strong guy, maybe just a slow learner. Carey for a first round pick did not play alot but became a solid player.