Well... it's mock draft time.
- Thread starter Feverdream
- Start date
My pipe dream scenario first, actual below:
25. Michael Mayer - Trade offer: 51, 2024 first round and Cedrick Wilson to the NYG for pick 25 and a 2024 5th round pick. Still retaining 77 and 84.
Giants are in a weird spot both in the draft and as a franchise. I don't envy the decision to have to bring back Daniel Jones and Saquan Barkley on big money contracts or to tag either. Especially when you are looking up at two teams in your division already. They need fire power on offense. Coincidentally they could really use the player I am trying to trade up for, as well. They have a massive need at WR though and I am not sure 25 is going to the be the spot to fill it, free agency certainly won't be as there are really limited options. I don't suspect Jaxon Smith-Njigba will be on the board at 25 with Jax at 24, Bal at 22 and LAC at 21. The right combination of assets could land us the player I believe that could make the single biggest impact to our offense, if he's even available at 25. But these posts are about pipe dreams anyway so I am rolling with the big TE from South Bend.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actual posibility:
51. John Michael-Schmitz C Minnesota - Move Williams to LG and hopefully sign Mike McGlinchey would be my hope there.
77. Devone Achane RB/KR TXAM - A 2nd RB to go with Mostert or Wilson and the speed in the return game that we tend to be on the wrong end of. Hard not to wonder what he could do for McD.
84. Jack Campbell LB Iowa - IT would be something to replace Elandon Roberts with this monster.
178. Dorian Thomson-Robinson QB UCLA - His skillset for a game or two would be a tough thing for a team to prepare for, should he need to play in spot duty. He can throw it a bit and can be very accurate at time. TD/INT ratio is great but he struggled against big time opponents. Still, he's got skills and a lot of experience playing for Chip Kelly. Opens the door for trick plays with a guy who can run.
240. Michael Turk P Oklahoma
25. Michael Mayer - Trade offer: 51, 2024 first round and Cedrick Wilson to the NYG for pick 25 and a 2024 5th round pick. Still retaining 77 and 84.
Giants are in a weird spot both in the draft and as a franchise. I don't envy the decision to have to bring back Daniel Jones and Saquan Barkley on big money contracts or to tag either. Especially when you are looking up at two teams in your division already. They need fire power on offense. Coincidentally they could really use the player I am trying to trade up for, as well. They have a massive need at WR though and I am not sure 25 is going to the be the spot to fill it, free agency certainly won't be as there are really limited options. I don't suspect Jaxon Smith-Njigba will be on the board at 25 with Jax at 24, Bal at 22 and LAC at 21. The right combination of assets could land us the player I believe that could make the single biggest impact to our offense, if he's even available at 25. But these posts are about pipe dreams anyway so I am rolling with the big TE from South Bend.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actual posibility:
51. John Michael-Schmitz C Minnesota - Move Williams to LG and hopefully sign Mike McGlinchey would be my hope there.
77. Devone Achane RB/KR TXAM - A 2nd RB to go with Mostert or Wilson and the speed in the return game that we tend to be on the wrong end of. Hard not to wonder what he could do for McD.
84. Jack Campbell LB Iowa - IT would be something to replace Elandon Roberts with this monster.
178. Dorian Thomson-Robinson QB UCLA - His skillset for a game or two would be a tough thing for a team to prepare for, should he need to play in spot duty. He can throw it a bit and can be very accurate at time. TD/INT ratio is great but he struggled against big time opponents. Still, he's got skills and a lot of experience playing for Chip Kelly. Opens the door for trick plays with a guy who can run.
240. Michael Turk P Oklahoma
jimthefin
Club Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Messages
- 6,161
- Reaction score
- 11,672
I am with you on the first two picks, I love the idea of adding Schmitz and moving Williams back to LG and Achane would be a ton of fun.
I am not sure Campbell is a fit for Fangio though, does he have enough athleticism to play zone coverage?
As for scenario #1, I would love to have Mayer but I would not give up a future #1 for him. he is a bit limited athletically and I don't see him being the kind of stud to be worth that price. He would be a great addition surely but the cost is too high for me.
If it wasn't for frickin Ross we could just take him with our #1 pick but...................................
I am with you on the first two picks, I love the idea of adding Schmitz and moving Williams back to LG and Achane would be a ton of fun.
I am not sure Campbell is a fit for Fangio though, does he have enough athleticism to play zone coverage?
As for scenario #1, I would love to have Mayer but I would not give up a future #1 for him. he is a bit limited athletically and I don't see him being the kind of stud to be worth that price. He would be a great addition surely but the cost is too high for me.
If it wasn't for frickin Ross we could just take him with our #1 pick but...................................
It’s safe to say that I’d expect to be picking really late next year if I am giving up that pick, along with 51.
The thinking there is Mayer changes things on offense for us, especially on third down and short. An area where Tua struggles to complete short passes in congested throwing lanes.
Additionally a critical component in the trade is freeing up $7M in cap space by trading Cedrick Wilson’s guaranteed 2023 salary. Giants need help there so it could work. I also think they might sign Gesicki.
Mayer fits Detroit, LAC and Jax so nicely that I doubt he even lasts to 25.
I do like the Texans FA TE Jordan Akins as a cheap short term option. He was a pain to deal with when we played them. His play week 18 cost the Texans the the first pick in the draft. I’d like to see what he can do with a real QB. He’s already 30 so he could come cheap.
Campbell seems like a baller I am not sure we actually get a shot at him after 51. I am holding out hope we can add Levonte David on a 2 year deal. He’s been a model of consistency and last year was no different.
As far as Ross goes, I make that perfectly clear with every post what I think of him. I hope he and Bruce Beal choke on each other’s diks.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 27, 2005
- Messages
- 24,512
- Reaction score
- 33,101
Great ideas here. I'm with you on adding Levonte David, at the right price.
I also like Jack Campbell. I think he can cover in short areas and I love his style of play.
There's enough talent at TE that I wouldn't trade up, although Mayer is intriguing.
Mayer would just add a whole new dimension. We’ve just become to used to not having quality production from the TE spot that we accept average. Both teams playing tomorrow built their offenses around that position.
I am ready for a solution at that position. The Gronk comparisons are stupid. He’s not that guy. He’s a more polished Mark Andrews, who along with Dallas Goedert were my preferences in 2018. I did like Gesicki’s potential so I was ok with that selection. Extra bummed now. Ironically I also liked Isiah Likely last year who we know is the backup to Mark Andrews.
I have wondered if Baltimore would trade either, of course they would at the right price but I couldn’t see us offering that right price.
We’d annihilate defenses with Mayer or Mark Andrews.
Scary to think Mayer may end up playing with Herbert, Lawrence or Burrow. I am pulling for him to go 18th to Detroit, if we can’t have him.
I do see some other talent at TE in this draft, still honing in on my official endorsements to be continued…..
Last edited:
Mayer is good, and he'd be a solid pick at 52, but trading up for a TE is a tough sell, and Mayer doesn't move very well. I totally get wanting him for Miami, because he's skilled as both A blocker and receiver, but he looks considerably slower than Mark Andrews. He'll block and he'll get some tough catches, but he's not going to produce explosive plays, and his lack of athleticism does limit what you can do with him. He's not going to run away from LB's on crossing routes - for example.
If there are two positions where athleticism isn't considered enough, it's QB and TE. For me, athleticism and blocking ability are the two most important aspects of a TE prospect. If you can block and move well, you have utility. Your presence alone puts defenses in difficult situations. But, you also have legitimate potential to be more than a useful player.
With Mayer, you're paying a premium for receiving production, and that matters to some extent, but I'd rather have a guy who blocks as well and is more athletic but lacks receiving production. I think we'll see these rankings change after the combine.
If there are two positions where athleticism isn't considered enough, it's QB and TE. For me, athleticism and blocking ability are the two most important aspects of a TE prospect. If you can block and move well, you have utility. Your presence alone puts defenses in difficult situations. But, you also have legitimate potential to be more than a useful player.
With Mayer, you're paying a premium for receiving production, and that matters to some extent, but I'd rather have a guy who blocks as well and is more athletic but lacks receiving production. I think we'll see these rankings change after the combine.
Attachments
- Joined
- May 27, 2005
- Messages
- 24,512
- Reaction score
- 33,101
Is there a tight end you like for Miami in that 52 range? Or do you think the team looks a little later?
Of course you pay premium for excellent production + athletic ability. Meyer's production is why he is a Day 1 pick.
We'll see after the combine whether he athletically belongs in the first round, but right now he is the only Day 1 TE, and worthy of it, He is a beast.
And Darnell Washington is not, he did not produce in college. He only has 'presumably' the athletic ability to be Day 1 pick. But his production is nowhere near Day 1 pick. If he did not have athletic ability he'd be undraftable.
Right now, my values are, before the combine:
Rd 1: Michael Meyer
Rd 2: Payne Durham (great production and athletic ability, but not as high as Meyer.)
Day 3: Darnell Washington, Brevyn Spann Ford, Josh Whyle, maybe Luke Musgrave (athletic ability only), Ben Sims, Tucker Kraft (ability and production)
If I do not get Darnell Washington on Day 3, I am not sad. There are other TEs who are in that group that I can get and be okay with.
We'll see after the combine whether he athletically belongs in the first round, but right now he is the only Day 1 TE, and worthy of it, He is a beast.
And Darnell Washington is not, he did not produce in college. He only has 'presumably' the athletic ability to be Day 1 pick. But his production is nowhere near Day 1 pick. If he did not have athletic ability he'd be undraftable.
Right now, my values are, before the combine:
Rd 1: Michael Meyer
Rd 2: Payne Durham (great production and athletic ability, but not as high as Meyer.)
Day 3: Darnell Washington, Brevyn Spann Ford, Josh Whyle, maybe Luke Musgrave (athletic ability only), Ben Sims, Tucker Kraft (ability and production)
If I do not get Darnell Washington on Day 3, I am not sad. There are other TEs who are in that group that I can get and be okay with.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 27, 2005
- Messages
- 24,512
- Reaction score
- 33,101
How do you view LaPorta?
I like Washington, but I wouldn't be surprised if he slid a little more than mocks are projecting. Excellent blocker, but how productive will he be in the passing game?
Whyle is intriguing as a later round pick. I'll have to check out Durham.
LaPorta to me right now is UDFA value because he is just slightly undersized and lacks production. I would put Cameron Latu and Brenton Strange ahead of him who to me are also UDFA right now. I view them all as #2 or backup tight ends. I'd like to sign them as UDFA to be #3 TE, potentially #2. But I would probably not spend a pick on him. The TEs I listed above I view as potential #1 TE either based on production and ability or just athletic ability.
Of course, I am interested in how all TEs test at the combine, it will make a big difference in how I view them.
Last edited:
Think there's a chance one of Mayer, Washington, or Musgrave fall to 52. Would be good with any of them at this point. If I'm Miami, I target both Oliver and Moreau in FA, as they'd both be useful in this offense, should not be expensive, and would mitigate the need heading into the draft. TE's usually take some time, and it's unwise to be hunting for your starting TE in the draft - if you intend to compete anyway.
TE should be viewed as more of a long-term investment in the draft. And, in ideal scenarios, I'm only drafting TE's later and only when they have legitimate upside. Kind if the opposite of RB, who I want to draft in that 40-100 range, because they hit the ground running but fade quickly. I'd much rather let someone else develop a given TE then sign them when they're ready to start on that 2nd deal.
Number of TEs selected in previous drafts:
2022: 19 (1 in Rd2, 3 in Rd3)
2021: 11 (1 in Rd1, 1 in Rd2, 3 in Rd3)
2020: 12 (1 Rd2, 4 Rd3)
2019: 16 (2 Rd1, 2 Rd2. 4 Rd3)
2018: 14 (1 Rd1, 2 Rd2, 2 Rd 3)
2017: 14 (3 Rd1, 2 Rd2, 1 Rd3)
We can expect up to 8 but most likely 6 TEs to go on Day 1 and 2.
Based on PFF, PFN and Tankathon the following six will go on Day 1 and 2: Meyer, Musgrave, Kincaid, LaPorta, Washington and Kraft.
I am no sad about losing out on any of those. However, I would be said that I would lose out on TEs by the time our next pick rolls around at 179.
I do not think there are good tight ends, #1s, available in free agency.
2022: 19 (1 in Rd2, 3 in Rd3)
2021: 11 (1 in Rd1, 1 in Rd2, 3 in Rd3)
2020: 12 (1 Rd2, 4 Rd3)
2019: 16 (2 Rd1, 2 Rd2. 4 Rd3)
2018: 14 (1 Rd1, 2 Rd2, 2 Rd 3)
2017: 14 (3 Rd1, 2 Rd2, 1 Rd3)
We can expect up to 8 but most likely 6 TEs to go on Day 1 and 2.
Based on PFF, PFN and Tankathon the following six will go on Day 1 and 2: Meyer, Musgrave, Kincaid, LaPorta, Washington and Kraft.
I am no sad about losing out on any of those. However, I would be said that I would lose out on TEs by the time our next pick rolls around at 179.
I do not think there are good tight ends, #1s, available in free agency.
- Joined
- May 27, 2005
- Messages
- 24,512
- Reaction score
- 33,101
With the usage of Hill and Waddle, maybe a block first tight end would be a good fit.
While not a seam threat, Washington has the size to be a mismatch in the redzone and is an excellent blocker. I could see Miami using him in a similar way to Smythe, but obviously Washington has more upside.
Ez perhaps can become that effective big receiver.