What young quarterback has succeeded….

[PhinFan1968]

I dig how the examples (Chargers/Bengals) everybody is using to counter the argument (bad OL and no run game), are completely ignoring the run game...not to mention the level of targets those QBs had to throw to in comparison. They did have bad pass-blocking though, for sure.

Edit: Strangely enough, Miami's run-block-win-rate was high...ranked 9th in the league, yet our run game sucked. Bad testament to our RBs' skill and offensive planning and play-design.

 

[kingfin23]

Herbert and Burrows.

 

[Travis34]

I think that’s a perfectly fair way to evaluate him, but I don’t think you (or I, or anyone) has a good read on his ability to sit in the pocket, make post-snap reads, and deliver passes to the intermediate and deep parts of the field because our OL was not capable of providing him that opportunity. And that’s really the most important skill an NFL QB can have. It’d be like evaluating a point guard without having seen him dribble.

Playing QB based almost exclusively on pre-snap reads and short passes against NFL defenses that know what’s coming is virtually impossible. Your margin for error is a matter of inches and split seconds on every pass. But that’s what Tua had to do this season because anything post-snap was worthless—the pocket would be collapsed by the time anyone came open.

I don’t agree that Tua is causing us to run a college offense at all. In my opinion, what’s causing us to run a college offense is the fact that we couldn’t pass block or run the football. There is no NFL offensive scheme that can succeed if you can’t run the ball and can’t pass block. RPO is not inherently a college scheme. RPO is now extremely widespread in the NFL. Even still, we only ran RPO on like a quarter of our snaps. The issue with our offense was us running a ridiculous concept designed to hide our offensive line and inability to run the ball.

I don’t understand why this concept is so hard to grasp

 

[KingHydra]

They were bad last year and it's a good example, but I didn't see a ranking that had them dead last.

We were 31st in time to pass last year. Chargers were 32nd.
Difference is the Chargers signed the best Center in football and drafted Slater.

 

[Jimi]

There is no doubt our o line was terrible, but people really need to understand that o line performance and QB play are highly correlated.

It’s extremely difficult to tell when the QB is negatively effecting the O Line, but it’s absolutely true that it is a thing.

There’s a reason our o line looked better when Fitz was in. There’s a reason TB went from bad O line to best O line overnight when Brady got to town while changing nothing but getting one great linemen. QBs make o lines look better than they are, or worse than they are all the time.

This isn’t a Tua bash post, I still think there’s a chance he can succeed. But no more excuses, even if they are legitimate ones. 5th overall pick needs to elevate people around him.

 

[Travis34]

Andrew Luck? OLINE, 2012 his first season

Anthony Castonzo,​

Joe Reitz​

Samson Satele​

Mike McGlynn​

Winston Justice, Luck's running game was a little bit better while going 11-5 his first 3 seasons​

I think this is a pretty good one actually. I don’t recall their run game really, but Luck really overcame that **** …. Still retired early like someone else said tho

 

[Travis34]

So sounds like we're saying here he looks really bad so far but we have great reasons, the absolute best reasons, for why that is.

I agree, he hasn't looked good and the rest of the offense leaves a lot to be desired, hopefully they can clean that up this off-season and we get a true evaluation next year. I'm all for that.

“Really bad”

Wow

 

[NBP81]

There is no doubt our o line was terrible, but people really need to understand that o line performance and QB play are highly correlated.

It’s extremely difficult to tell when the QB is negatively effecting the O Line, but it’s absolutely true that it is a thing.

There’s a reason our o line looked better when Fitz was in. There’s a reason TB went from bad O line to best O line overnight when Brady got to town while changing nothing but getting one great linemen. QBs make o lines look better than they are, or worse than they are all the time.

This isn’t a Tua bash post, I still think there’s a chance he can succeed. But no more excuses, even if they are legitimate ones. 5th overall pick needs to elevate people around him.

If getting rid of the ball faster than anyone else in the league, and ending up the season with only 7 QBs taking less sacks than you are, isnt helping out the OL, what is?

 

[PhinFan1968]

Is there really any argument?

Tua is surviving, and winning more games, with far less then Burrow and Herbert in their 1st two years.

With also less to work with, Tua's first 16 games is better then Josh Allen, Kyle Murray, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning to name a few.

Not much argument there.

Truth. And, IMO, he deserves at least another year to prove his worth, based on his entire body of work so far.

I will say, however, that I believe he has trended downward over the last 4 games or so, of the season. His Tennessee performance was by-far the worst he's had that I know of. He was off-target on many passes, including some completions, and at times had no pressure. That pass he threw at Hollins' feet when he was rolling left disgusted me...it wasn't a long throw and it looked like he put a lot of torque into the delivery. Then against the Patriots he was pedestrian, aside from the clutch plays with his legs...had a couple nice throws, but had some meh mixed in there as well.

I'm willing to believe it was mostly due to the strained situation with the coach and the effects that situation had on the offense overall, but we won't know to what extent that messed him up, until at least next year. If he comes out inaccurate through camp/pre-season and into the season, it's not looking good IMO. Not worried it will happen, just braced for it.

He will be under his 3rd offense in 3 years...I really hate inconsistency, but it is what it is. He's gotta grasp it quick, as well as the rest of the offense. 2021's early games on offense were disjointed very badly, and it was because most of the offensive players aside from Tua didn't fully get the playbook. Hate to have to see that happen again next year.

 

[lynx]

I hate to say it but the 2017 Texans are considered to be one the worst Oline's of all time and you know who was having a great season when he tore his ACL

 

[rent this space]

Burrow's line finished 2nd worst. Mic Drop.

He also had a 1200 yard running back, here’s your mic back

 

[Delvin]

He also had a 1200 yard running back, here’s your mic back

Duke Johnson in the Patriots game ran for 117 yards (another 40 from Lindsey). How'd Tua do in that game with a great running game? He had to do amazing, right? No? That's odd.

 

[Marino2.0]

They were 31st last year in pass-block-win-rate, with the same % Miami had this year (47%).

I am not an expert in how pass block win rate is calculated, but does it account for the length of the play?

So for instance, if the play is a slow developing downfield concept and one of your OL holds up for the first few seconds but eventually gets beat in a way that does not blow up the play, is that a pass block “loss”?

If so, is it counted the same way as a total whiff or a play where the OL provides virtually no resistance and the QB is immediately under pressure?

Not saying that’s doing the work but just curious. Because it’d be one thing if we had a functional offensive line that just wasn’t good and couldn’t consistently win their blocks. We didn’t have that. Our guys frequently whiffed or got instantly reverse-pancaked. In one of the microcosms of our season, against the Saints, I watched Jesse Davis get immediately put on his butt by a 240-pound rookie linebacker. That’s not something that’s ever supposed to happen to an offensive tackle in a one-on-one blocking situation. Like literally never in their career.

 

[NBP81]

Truth. And, IMO, he deserves at least another year to prove his worth, based on his entire body of work so far.

I will say, however, that I believe he has trended downward over the last 4 games or so, of the season. His Tennessee performance was by-far the worst he's had that I know of. He was off-target on many passes, including some completions, and at times had no pressure. That pass he threw at Hollins' feet when he was rolling left disgusted me...it wasn't a long throw and it looked like he put a lot of torque into the delivery. Then against the Patriots he was pedestrian, aside from the clutch plays with his legs...had a couple nice throws, but had some meh mixed in there as well.

I'm willing to believe it was mostly due to the strained situation with the coach and the effects that situation had on the offense overall, but we won't know to what extent that messed him up, until at least next year. If he comes out inaccurate through camp/pre-season and into the season, it's not looking good IMO. Not worried it will happen, just braced for it.

He will be under his 3rd offense in 3 years...I really hate inconsistency, but it is what it is. He's gotta grasp it quick, as well as the rest of the offense. 2021's early games on offense were disjointed very badly, and it was because most of the offensive players aside from Tua didn't fully get the playbook. Hate to have to see that happen again next year.

Talking with a couple of guys, we've noticed that Tua's mechanics somewhat deteriorated in the later parts of the season. Weight transfer issues and leaning back was brought up.

There could be a multitude of reasons for this... Confidence in the protection might be a factor and its also possible that the hip started to get fatigued at some point. Either way, these things certainly arent final and Im certain he'll keep on working on his game, strength and conditioning.

 

[Marino2.0]

Burrow's line finished 2nd worst. Mic Drop.

Based on what statistic? The Dolphins OL allowed 40 more pressures than the second worst OL, which was the Jets. Cincinnati’s OL wasn’t top 5 in pressures allowed. Doesn’t seem apples to apples to me.