What young quarterback has succeeded…. | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What young quarterback has succeeded….

Marino2.0 said:
Based on what statistic? The Dolphins OL allowed 40 more pressures than the second worst OL, which was the Jets. Cincinnati’s OL wasn’t top 5 in pressures allowed. Doesn’t seem apples to apples to me.
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Based on Pass Block Win Rate (ESPN). The same stat that gets often cited here.
 
NBP81 said:
Talking with a couple of guys, we've noticed that Tua's mechanics somewhat deteriorated in the later parts of the season. Weight transfer issues and leaning back was brought up.

There could be a multitude of reasons for this... Confidence in the protection might be a factor and its also possible that the hip started to get fatigued at some point. Either way, these things certainly arent final and Im certain he'll keep on working on his game, strength and conditioning.
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On top of that, his demeanor was completely the opposite of what we'd gotten used to seeing from him. In interviews and generally how he carried himself on the field. He didn't seem confident at all. Hopefully a lot of this stuff is cleared up in the off-season, if we get a coach that wants to roll with him.
 
I do think most of us can agree that Tua deserves another year because the O-Line isn’t getting worse, we’ll have a new head coach, and we’ll hopefully invest in a WR or two opposite Waddle and Parker (if he stays), and a young power RB to pair with whoever stays of Lindsay, Duke and Gaskin.

I think what many are upset about with Tua is that while he has shown the ability to partially offset all of the above with quick passes and decision making, he hasn’t shown the athletic ability of most other QBs in the NFL which makes his upside lower. Once he has his offensive support in place next year (God willing), then we can see if he can be more like a Drew Brees and less like a Matt Moore.
 
Last year as well Herbert's line was ranked 2nd worst (31st). Dolphins lined ranked 27th. Yet, Herbert still produced greatly. This year Herbert has the most dropped passes in the game. Sometimes you need to produce despite bad talent around you.
 
Delvin said:
Based on Pass Block Win Rate (ESPN). The same stat that gets often cited here.
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Discussed above but not sure how that stat is calculated. Hard for me to imagine it does a better job of encapsulating the type of blocking a QB received than total pressures. Pressures is of course imperfect, too, if your QB is holding the ball too long. But that obviously wasn’t an issue for us.
 
Delvin said:
Last year as well Herbert's line was ranked 2nd worst (31st). Dolphins lined ranked 27th. Yet, Herbert still produced greatly.
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Like I said that's cute he got numbers but he is failing in wins.

If stats are more important than wins to you enjoy him.
 
Travis34 said:
“Really bad”

Wow
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Ok, how about not so good? Point is we are listing all the reasons the QB play has been lackluster, underwhelming, pick your favorite word. The reasons are good but they are being discussed to explain why the QB performance hasn't been good relative to others.

One point that seems to often be left out of all this reasoning is that Tua enjoyed a much better defense than Burrow/Herbert. That defense, particularly during the win streak, was only giving up 11 points a game, giving our offense the ball back time and time again, scoring even sometimes. People are leaving that out of the equation as they throw out Tua's W-L record. Only want to discuss the bad line and running game which is fair but Tua has had a big advantage with the quality of his defense relative to these other guys.
 
steveo style said:
I do think most of us can agree that Tua deserves another year because the O-Line isn’t getting worse, we’ll have a new head coach, and we’ll hopefully invest in a WR or two opposite Waddle and Parker (if he stays), and a young power RB to pair with whoever stays of Lindsay, Duke and Gaskin.

I think what many are upset about with Tua is that while he has shown the ability to partially offset all of the above with quick passes and decision making, he hasn’t shown the athletic ability of most other QBs in the NFL which makes his upside lower. Once he has his offensive support in place next year (God willing), then we can see if he can be more like a Drew Brees and less like a Matt Moore.
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You hit the nail on the head. I don't think Tua gonna work out as a long term franchise QB. It's not all on him though. I think he could have been a good, serviceable starter, but poor decisions around him have led to him now having proven that and by the time he does (if he takes a step next season), it's contract extension time raising his salary quite a bit and forcing him to have to carry the team more which takes him out of what he's shown his comfort zone is..
 
PhinFan1968 said:
On top of that, his demeanor was completely the opposite of what we'd gotten used to seeing from him. In interviews and generally how he carried himself on the field. He didn't seem confident at all. Hopefully a lot of this stuff is cleared up in the off-season, if we get a coach that wants to roll with him.
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I've also noticed that... Although what I saw gave me more the impression of accumulated stress, he flat out looked burned out his his last couple of PCs imo. I dont blame him, its been a though year on and off the field for him. These guys say they dont look at the papers but I dont believe it for one second.

Anyways, for me this isnt about Tua succeeding, its about the Fins fielding at least a top 10 offense year in year out. And the way teams do this is by building their offense around their QBs strength. Anyone that says they did that the last 2 years with a straight face... Whatever.
 
steveo style said:
I do think most of us can agree that Tua deserves another year because the O-Line isn’t getting worse, we’ll have a new head coach, and we’ll hopefully invest in a WR or two opposite Waddle and Parker (if he stays), and a young power RB to pair with whoever stays of Lindsay, Duke and Gaskin.

I think what many are upset about with Tua is that while he has shown the ability to partially offset all of the above with quick passes and decision making, he hasn’t shown the athletic ability of most other QBs in the NFL which makes his upside lower. Once he has his offensive support in place next year (God willing), then we can see if he can be more like a Drew Brees and less like a Matt Moore.
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Totally fair post but I’ve never understood the “upside” argument related to athletic ability. There’s no higher upside than Tom Brady and/or Drew Brees, and both of those guys are Foot Locker employee-caliber athletes. I don’t think athleticism or arm strength really impact your upside as an NFL quarterback. I actually think they have more to do with your floor.
 
andyahs said:
Unless it's Tua.

Got it.

Dolphins win - defense
Dolphins lose - Tua
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Na. Just turns out the QB is the most valuable and has the most impact on the game.

I also don't blame the long snapper as much as I blame a cornerback. Some positions are far more impactful to a team. The QB is 2-10x more valuable than anywhere else. Just the reality.
 
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